Love, Actually: Bread Pudding, Burnt Sugar, & Big Feelings

Love gets marketed as a feeling you fall into, but our real lives keep asking for something sturdier. We wrestle with the question “How do you know when you love someone?” and end up talking about the moments that don’t fit on a greeting card: missing someone in the middle of an ordinary day, making space for them in your future, and choosing connection even when it costs time, energy, or pride. If you’ve ever wondered whether what you’re building is love or just attachment, this conversation gives you language that’s practical and honest. 

We dig into what love looks like in action: respect over being right, boundaries instead of rules, and freedom instead of control. We also talk about the trap of self-sacrifice and hyper-independence, and how learning interdependence can feel scary if you grew up carrying too much. From chronic illness to grief to everyday care, we explore why receiving help is not weakness, and why refusing support can accidentally make you feel unreachable to the people who want to love you well. 

Then we zoom out with a definition that sticks: love as an act of kindness with full presence. Not automatic giving, not emotional manipulation, not a perfect 50-50 split, but a steady commitment to show up as a whole person and to let other people do the same. We even get into self-love as honesty, journaling, slowing down, and returning to the things that regulate us, like music, after burnout. 

If you want more conversations about relationships, emotional intimacy, boundaries, and what real love looks like, subscribe, share this with a friend, and leave a review so more curious people can find the table. What’s one action that makes you feel loved?

Special thanks to Rhys Lombardo for the audio engineering and Bruce France for production of the podcast audio.

Oh...and be sure to give a listen to the "On Being" episode with Rabbi Shia Held (On Love, and Judaism) Rhys mentioned!

If this sparked something for you, follow the show, share it with a friend, and leave a review or text us through the link above with the question you want us to explore next.

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Until then, Stay Curious!

Transcript

Welcome To The Curious Crew

Sam 0:06

Do you ever wish for a place where you can ask real questions without a fight? Do you ever want to sit with people who see the world differently than you and still feel connected? Do you ever crave a circle that listens more than it lectures and leaves you a little more human than when you arrived? If this is you, welcome to the Curious Crew Podcast. One honest question with many voices and with real connection. It's where we listen first and we practice curiosity with kindness and then become curious friends together. So without further ado, let's get curious. Welcome to the Curious Crew podcast, where we believe curiosity leads to connection. My name is Sam, that makes you you, and I'm one of your curious co-hosts. Each episode we pose one quest curious question voted on by the Curious Crew to our panel of curious people, and we get curious about their thoughts and perspectives and grow into curious friends together.

Colette 1:16

And my name is Colette. My pronouns are they and them. And I'm also one of your co-hosts for our time together.

Dessert Icebreakers And Connection

Colette 1:22

Just like we do every month in person to get us warmed up, we're kicking things off with our curious quickie. And this week or month, what is it? Month of we meet?

Sam 1:33

Yeah, every month.

Colette 1:34

If you were a dessert, what would you be? Yes. We don't need to be very good friends. Whenever you uh introduce your please give your name, yeah, not just your dessert, unless that's how you want to be known.

Sam 1:48

Yeah, or you're gonna be you're gonna be called that the rest of the time.

Paige 1:51

Okay. Well, I'm Paige, and um I thought about this a lot actually, since you gave this to us early. Oh, and I I don't have an answer, I'm gonna be honest. I love too many desserts. My son asked me what kind of ice cream I like best, and I took it so seriously, and I couldn't figure it out. I love ice cream and desserts. I have a gluten intolerance, I don't get to enjoy a lot of desserts that I actually want to eat. So I just picked them all. Is that fair?

Sam 2:22

Except well, only seen allowed only gluten, well, ones that are gluten-free.

Paige 2:26

Right. Yeah. But that it's there's a those are rare and not usually very great.

Sam 2:30

Yeah, that's what I was gonna say. They're not the same thing.

Paige 2:32

They're not the same. No.

Sam 2:33

Well, say somebody like waved a magic wand and you can just whoo oh, like had a gluten-free. You know, you can just like the world of desserts is open to you.

Paige 2:42

Wow.

Sam 2:44

No pressure.

Paige 2:45

I think maybe like a really good white chocolate bread pudding.

Sam 2:49

Oh.

Paige 2:49

I miss bread pudding for sure.

Sam 2:51

White chocolate bread pudding. That's nice.

Paige 2:53

Or a coffee cake, maybe. Coffee cake's delicious. Yeah. Good choice. What about you, Nathan?

Nathen 3:00

Me? So my name's Nathan, and I I put in a bunch of like personalities that I had on Google, and I was like, let me see what comes up. So the first I know the first the first answer that came up was like a warm crisp apple um cake with some ice cream on top. Okay. So I put in like stuff like Karen, soft, sweet, honest, and I was like, you know, this doesn't fit me at all. So I was like, let me go back to my first answer I thought about. And to me, that was like bread pudding with like ice cream really on top. Because for me, I chose that because that's my favorite dessert, and it just fits me perfectly. I'm soft on the inside, I'm very emotional when the ice cream. When the ice cream now, it's just I get very, very emotional, and that's like I love that.

Paige 3:51

I focus more on flavor, but I like that you were like, What is me?

Nathen 3:54

Yeah, and that fits me perfectly. I'm very forgiving, and it's like it's a go-to treat of mine. It's my all-time favorite. That's so you had bread pudding too, then.

Colette 4:05

Yeah.

Sam 4:05

So there's two bread puddings.

Colette 4:06

Yeah.

Sam 4:07

Collect.

Colette 4:08

I guess I can't say bread pudding now.

Sam 4:10

You can. If that's what you want.

Colette 4:13

We can. We can all be bread pudding.

Sam 4:16

I will not be.

Colette 4:17

There's enough, there's enough variations of bread pudding that we can all be one. There, okay. In Oklahoma City, the only thing good in Oklahoma City is a uh apple pie bread pudding.

Sam 4:27

Ooh.

Colette 4:28

At this like Italian restaurant. That is not what I would choose. But if you're ever in Oklahoma City, eat that. I don't remember what restaurant it was in or anything like that, but you can find it.

Sam 4:38

The super helpful tip brought to you by Collective.

Colette 4:42

A very specific tip. I think strawberry shortcake. Oh, because you know, like all three components of strawberry shortcake are good by themselves, and then you put them together and it makes it even better. I don't know what components of myself get put together to make them even better. I think there may be no, I'm not gonna be self-deprecating today. Um yeah. Uh it's my turn. That to make it even better.

Sam 5:10

Oh yeah.

Colette 5:11

Uh no, my What is your boring ass? Is there gonna be too much food allergies?

Sam 5:17

I'm uh water. No, I'm waving you know lime juice. It gets that's only for Friday night. Calm down. Getting wild on a Friday night. You have no idea the crazy life I live with limes on a Friday. Uh well, no, I actually have a question first. I want to know, like, it now is the do you take any old like whipped cream or do you prefer like homemade?

Colette 5:38

Yeah, no, you gotta make it homemade.

Sam 5:40

Okay, that's a that's an important distinction.

Colette 5:41

Yeah, that's an important distinction.

Sam 5:42

No, no, like none of that cool whip shit.

Colette 5:44

Look, I don't mind cool whip, it has its place and it's not on strawberry shortcake. It needs to be where is its place? I don't know, like store-bought pie. Ah, or it's eaten straight out of the tub, you know? I don't know.

Sam 5:58

You're you really are a dessert lover. Okay, I see.

Paige 6:01

Oily. I just go for it, you know.

Sam 6:05

Some of us are adventurous. See, for me, like back in the if I was gonna wave a wand, and this is what I love, I love any version of a creme brulee. Any version. I remember the one time I went to Disney World, I went, I ate at a nice restaurant, and they had a creme brulee flight. And it was like the standard one, and then they had a chocolate one, and I can't even remember the middle one because let's be honest, the other two were just so great. I think it was like a blueberry or something. Well, yeah, I just love the crack and the you've you've had a has everybody had creme brulee? I had a different one.

Colette 6:33

I love so you're saying that your your personality is like the crack, the flight of the burnt pieces on top.

Sam 6:41

Yeah, I'm all burnt hard on the outside and just this, I guess, soft on the outside.

Colette 6:47

Actually, that's that might work.

Sam 6:49

I mean, not I guess if that's what we're going for. I wish. But uh, oh yeah, that was that's good. I'm glad I know everybody's what well I just Reese is gonna talk off and on, but uh Reese, what is well do you real quick. I want to hear, I want to hear what you have to say.

Rhys 7:04

Ah, hello. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um not like what can I say? No. Um I'm oh sorry, Reese. He they, but primarily they them right now. It changes on the daily. Um I I was gonna say chocolate mousse. Oh yeah, because I love chocolate mousse, and I also can't eat ice cream, just all the uh glue. What is it? The uh lactose. Lactose is in that. Uh so definitely a nice light chocolate mousse. It's thrilly delicious and great.

Colette 7:39

I've sounds like you're gonna make something about being smooth, which we both know you're not that smooth. That was so funny.

Rhys 7:46

Everybody tells me I'm not smooth, but I think I'm so smooth. I'm so smooth. Very suave. We were at dinner, and this girl was definitely making eyes on me, and I smoothly left her my number on the back of that after all the anxiety that's pre-ins for the weeks before it.

Sam 8:09

But the final door is that's that's what smooth happens. You gotta agitate it real quick, and then it gets nice and smooth. Yeah. You just can't let them see.

Colette 8:22

Smooth behavior.

Sam 8:24

That's good. I well, I I endorse your smoothness. I've only I've only heard about it of legend. But all right.

The Big Question About Love

Colette 8:35

Now that we're good and warmed up and goofing off in good order, we can move on to our curious question for this episode, which is how do you know when you love someone and what does love look like in action for you?

Sam 8:48

Oh boy. Well, just uh just so we know how this all works, uh, we're gonna do a quick overview of our curious codes, kind of like how we guide our conversations. The first one is respect uh beats being right always. Uh second is listen up, no interruptions. Uh, then keep an open mind. It's how we grow. And probably the big one, the probably should be the first one, uh, is we respond with curiosity, which means after somebody shares, uh, we always ask a question before we ever do comments. And uh of course, we need to make this as a safe space for everyone every time. So now that we have our code, let's get curious about our question today, and I'll do it one more time. How do you know when you love someone and what does that look like in action for you? Dun dun dun dun.

Rhys 9:40

Well, I'm gonna open this up by asking a question. Oh, yes, well done. What type of love are we talking about? Ah, well done. Atic, community love, partnership, friendship. There are a lot of different types of candidates.

Sam 9:53

I will submit it to the I will submit it to the table, but I would say I say it's all encompassing, but um, you can pick whatever flavor you want or many flavors, uh, whatever's hitting you. Or you can talk about one like because I think there's a lot of not to take it over, but there's a lot of aspects about love that are similar that show up in all the different relationships just in different ways. That's one way I thought about it too.

Love Without Control Or Manipulation

Colette 10:21

Yeah, to that point, I I wondered the same thing when I read the prompt three. But then I did think about that, Tim, that like what is unifying across all parts of what I've uh how I know when I love someone is that I don't want to imagine my life without them. Oh, yeah. Um all relationships that I'm you know, whenever I let my imagine take over what the future will look like, those the people that I love are the people that are uh like an immutable presence in them. Um is the true primary way that I know. Um and then it's left for my demisexual, confused nonsense to figure out does this mean that I want to be with this person romantically or as a friend or what? Like uh that's kind of like whatever.

Sam 11:21

Uh the whole new realm.

Colette 11:23

Right, that's a whole other conversation. Um, but I think I've just resolved in myself just to like, do you love this person? Period. And then let all that other stuff kind of work itself out in the long term, yeah, and not try to think too hard about it or try to control it too much. Because related to like what does love look like in action for me for me, it's not trying to control. Um is probably like the biggest thing that I think is what love and action looks like is that uh if we're if I'm gonna commit myself to like wanting to have this person in my life, I don't want to always hold too tightly to what I think that relationship should look like, or then it's not really love. I think love and action ultimately will lead to freedom where all parties involved have the freedom to leave at any time, to renegotiate um expectations in the relationship, um, and to show up for each other in whatever way like works, um, and not always to be like demanding of that. Uh, I think my best friendships are ones where it's like, I have this need, I would like you to be present. And when the other person says I can't make that happen, uh the follow-up question that I've loved from like my closest friends is I can't make that happen, but here's what I can make happen for you. Like, here's how I can show up for you. Uh, and kind of like be willing to negotiate um the you know, the relationship either romantically or as friends. And I think also in family too, like my I feel like I've gotten closer to certain members of my family because we've been able to have that conversation that like this is what love looks like and this is what it doesn't look like in first fight, you can't control me. Stop trying. Uh and can we have a mature conversation about um how we want to be in relationship to each other?

Sam 13:34

When you said you said a little bit about the control part, but what what is is there like an overarching like theme to what control means? Is it like expectations? Is it um I mean or what does it look like? What does control mean?

Colette 13:53

Um That's a good question. I I think it's like everyone has expectations It's how dogged are you about them, about other people needing them for you? Like to me, love when you love someone and they they say like this is my expectation, and there is that like I can't do that for you, a control would say, Well then it's my way or the highway. You have to. Like you have to, yeah. Um you have to get on board, get out, kind of thing. Um it's how I've experienced control, but also there's like subtle ways that people will can control as well, um, with like emotional manipulation and stuff like that. And and I've experienced that a lot in different relationships, and it's like that's not it either. And it I don't think that kind of behavior is loving, but also sometimes people don't realize they're doing it, yeah. Yeah, um, yeah, and so there's compassion for that. Um, but yeah, I think control is this is what I want, and this is what you're gonna do for me. Um, and this is what it means to be in a relationship with me, and it's my way or the highway, and there's a lot of rules.

Sam 15:16

Rules and boundaries are different, and doesn't sound like a lot of compromise, right?

Colette 15:21

Not a lot of compromise, not a lot of like meeting in the middle. Like a a boundary says, like, if you do this, then I'm gonna do this. A rule says you're gonna do this, and that's yeah, or I'm like, or I'm gonna try and make you. Yeah. Yeah. Um in whatever ways they can try to make that happen. Yeah.

Paige 15:42

WI well I love the way you were articulated,Colette. I never thought of it that way, but it's like how did you say it? It was something you can't imagine in your life.ould you say a lot comes down to mutual respect?

Colette 15:46

Oh, yeah.

Paige 15:46

Yeah.

Colette 15:47

Yeah. Yeah. For sure. Um, yeah, mutuality is a big big thing for me. And I think that is what love looks like is that there's mute not just mutual respect but mutual empathy, mutual attention, um, like mutual regard for the other person's well-being. Yeah. All of that, I think, is part of what love is.

Paige 16:08

I agree. I really like your answer too. And a lot of it is what I thought of. I really like that you brought up the friendship portion or relationship portion, and even

Platonic Love, Respect, And Boundaries

Paige 16:20

sometimes that wondering, like, well, which one is it? You know, um, because I'm a big believer in the platonic love I have for my friends. Oh, yeah. Kind of obsessed with them and in love with them, you know. And it, of course, it looks different than being in love with my wife in different ways. Um, but it it's still very much in love, you know. And I that's what I thought of whenever I read the question initially. And when I thought of what does love look like in action for you, the the concept of just respect was a big part of it for me. Um, you know, just people who even if you know they're wildly different than you, or I mean, we're not gonna be the same as our friends. A lot of times we might be like-minded or like-minded with the people we love, but they're gonna we're gonna have differences. But that ultimately it looks like a lot ha a lot of holding respect for each other. Um and then maybe it goes further than that.

Colette 17:24

Can you explain we like roll back a little bit? When you're talking about like being in love with your friends, how is that how do you know somebody's crossed the threshold from being like an acquaintance to being like a friend that you're like deeply in love with? Sure, you know.

Paige 17:41

I think that probably looks different for everyone just because we're all wired so differently. Um I would imagine it has a lot to do with just personal boundaries that you've decided that this is for this person that I have and this is not, you know. I mean, I could, you know, um kiss my friends if I wanted to, I guess, but that's not what I want to do in my friendship, and no shame for anybody who does, you know. Um, but I think it more ha has to do with just kind of personal boundaries and um I don't know, that's my perspective of it. Um, but I'm always someone who has loved very hard and passionately the people around me. Um I'm a Gemini and I can you know oh everybody took a deep breath. I don't know what that means, but it seems important. Um well, yeah, I'm just kind of fluid, I guess, and also simultaneously flirty, apparently, is supposed to be part of our thing.

Rhys 18:39

Um like the twin sign, the twin sign. Yeah. Duality.

Paige 18:46

Yeah. But um, I don't know. I think that, you know, love is so hard to define. So I like this discussion. Um, but well, how would you define it? Oh goodness.

Sam 19:00

Spot, gotcha.

Speaker 10 19:01

Yeah, yeah.

Sam 19:04

Sorry.

Paige 19:05

Wow. I think a lot of what Colette said described love for sure.

Sam 19:10

Um what was it, mutuality? Well, you said respect.

Paige 19:14

Yeah. Um how to define love boundaries, respect. Again, it seems so much that it it would depend on your personality and what matters to you, what love would look like, I guess. So for me, I mean, of course, there's big feelings and emotions and all of that that comes with it. That's like excitement and happiness and um comfort, you know, that comes with it. But then in a real practical way, it's also all the other things we just discussed too.

Sam 19:51

I well I love the way you were articulated, Colette. I never thought of it that way, but it's like how did you say it? It was um you can't imagine them not being in your life.

Paige 20:01

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Sam 20:02

That's what I would like. I mean, I'm not gonna say my answer, but like that's what I would think is like that's definitely a component where you start, it's not like you you're maybe sitting here drinking a nice hot water, you know, it uh on a Saturday. And you're just like, you know, I wonder if Colette would like that, you know, and that's when those kind of things come in your head, it's just like, oh, where they start, I don't want to say intruding, but they they are be a part of your normal thoughts, and it's like so Ness just saying, Oh, I want to share this with them in some way, shape, or form.

Colette 20:36

Yeah, they like take up some mental real estate, yeah, and emotional real estate.

Rhys 20:41

It's also what you were saying, Sam, it's like a willing, it's vulnerable. Yeah, it's a willingness to share not just this with them, but yourself with them, and I think that um one of the harder things to do. Oh for sure,

Self-Sacrifice And Learning Interdependence

Rhys 20:55

yeah.

Nathen 20:55

YeahAnd okay. I'm now pushing back, I'm now moving forward to this mindset. I need to be more interdependent, where I need to have this solitude within myself, and also have this dependency on certain people. It's my way of expressing love.Yeah, it's a sum of it and there were three keywords I always told myself. It was always trust,respect, and honesty for that I always had for a long time, and that's how I want to express my love to anybody, whether it's a future companionship,acquaintance,love,um, lover down the line.Yeah,yeah. That's my way of expressing it., it's um it's very finicky for me. I'm gonna be really honest with you. I'm I've been single all my life, so I can't really express like how love is how it is to actually love someone going to that deep end of things. But what I can say, what does love action love look like in action for me? For me, for a long time, it's about like um self-sacrifice. It's this mentality that had for a long time that it represents in my family atmospheres and has like trickled down to like outside of my family. And I just always had that mentality that um I should do everything on my own. And it's um because I do everything on my own, I push away like a lot of people that have like wanted to support me, but that's because in my family I always had like um siblings that needed more help than me. So I figured let me. Take a chance, let me take some risks, take some challenges on my own to get better, and that's how I show my love for you guys. This self-sacrifice that I have, and um I just do it involuntarily, like I just have no reason, and it still shows up in a part of my life, and I'm trying to fix that. I'm doing everything I can to fix it, everything I can.

Sam 22:24

It's just um Do you do you think being self-sacrificial is is a negative thing, or at least or maybe in the way it sometimes is expressed with you or in you for me it can be negative and be a positive thing because it's represented in my life and where it's like I take on too much of a burden for myself, it impacts a lot of people surrounding me that I never thought it would. Oh.

Nathen 22:55

And okay. I'm now pushing back, I'm now moving forward to this like mindset where I need to be more interdependent, where I need to have this solitude within myself, and also have this dependency to certain people. It's my way of expressing love. Yeah, it's um it's and there was like three key words I always told myself. It was always trust, respect, and honesty for me that I always had for a long time, and that's how I want to express my love to anybody, whether it's a future companionship, acquaintance, love, um, lover down the line. Yeah, yeah. That's my way of expressing it.

Rhys 23:40

Nathan, can you talk more about um yeah, your relationship to interdependency? Because a lot of what you're saying resonates with like being very um, I'm also very self what's our um self-sacrificing or independent self-sufficient. Self-sufficient, yeah, okay, okay, and the idea of uh intertwining my my yeah, life that we talked about this. Sam's like, can I help you with those microphones? I'm like, no, I'm good. And he's like, You need yeah, I need to work on this. Yeah, to offer ask or ask for help and receive help. So interdependency sounds scary, so but it's something I also want.

Nathen 24:20

Okay, yeah. So yeah, so it's always challenging because I I'm just a stubborn guy. I'm super, super stubborn. I get there, my mom tells me, my dad can tell me, all my brothers can tell me. I mean, everything stubborn, yeah, it's their fault. Tell them it's their fault. No, but I still love them not. It's a love-hate relationship. I mean, every I feel like everybody has it, but as far as like the interdependency, um, I'm really just working my way to it. I mean, there's really no easy answer to it, really. It's um it's just re-fixing my mindset that I had for like years and years and years, just um like growing in a new direction that I never thought I would have, and that's where um the interdependency comes in. It's making amend, saying sorry for a lot of the things I do that plays a big part into it. So I I don't want to be the guy to like leave out of here and burn bridges. It's for me it I get very emotional and um I just can't do it. So for me, it's just um it's leaning on the people that I never thought I would have in my life, just leaning on them for sure, and also taking care of myself mentally and physically, just to create like a happier mindset so I don't continue to cycle down on right now.

Sam 25:53

Well, you see, uh I don't wanna uh you can tell me you don't have to answer this question, but because I'm getting your business. But uh well, no, because you said something it I'm getting your business because I'm because I'm in my business. Uh uh when you said um you know you've always been independent and you're trying to be interdependent and stuff, uh is it and then you said one other thing. You said you have you're very emotional, yeah. Okay, so are you are you self-sufficient because you you're emotional and you get hurt easier than most people? Does it have anything to do with being controlled? Like, where do you think that comes from for you? You answer as comfortable as you're because this is like therapy level stuff.

Nathen 26:41

This is like therapy level stuff. Oh, I don't want to. Yeah, so let's see. A lot of times it's goes back to me like bringing back old memories that I'm trying to repress for a long time. Yeah. So that's where like the emotion kicks in for me. It's like kicks it on to another level that I'm forgotten. Like I we go through our every bit everyday lives and we forget about a lot of things. But it's um You mean repress, like it's repressed, yeah. Repress, yeah. Yeah, it's repressed and forgotten. Yeah. Um, yeah, it's uh it's a very finicky thing. It's um things I never thought I would tackle, and I'm just yeah, I just get sad over it.

Sam 27:27

See, uh you I'm not once again when I say my answer, yeah. But uh you make me think about like my own struggle with that in the sense of I I was you know similar, very independent, uh didn't want to rely on anybody, but then as you peel it back, it's because I tend to because I have big emotions and I do tend to care about people pretty deeply, yeah, do tend to get hurt pretty quickly, and so then you just oh well I don't want to like actually learn how to like control and be like a healthy human being, so I'll just like repress that and not have any emotions and just not rely on anybody. That's much easier ish, you know, for as long as you can last on that, the default mode, yeah. Because you're not really designed to do that, like as a human. We're not really designed to not be in some kind of inner relationships with all kinds of people, but yeah. I mean, that's what was when you were talking about yours, that's what made me. That's why I was kind of curious about because I was like, is he is in my business too? I think he's in my business too.

Paige 28:34

I just appreciated your vulnerability about that.

Nathen 28:36

Um, yeah, all of this, like everything that I've been going through, just seeking help. I mean, it's taught me a lot about vulnerability vulnerability. Yeah, yeah. I mix up my words every now and then.

Sam 28:47

It's like vulnerability is one of those ones that makes you live up.

Nathen 28:51

Yeah, it sounds like also like oh I don't know how much to share, yeah, what I should share. Yeah, I think that was like something that you mentioned like way back when I first started like the first like Curious Crew uh meet up. It's like that vulnerable state. Is it okay to share enough or is it not okay to share enough? Yeah.

Paige 29:12

So well, you sharing some of that made me dig a little bit and think, well, I'll be a little vulnerable too. And I I um I think that's a big part of why I'm such a lover girl now is because I spent a long time just in my childhood and growing up really in survival mode a lot of the time and just trying to make it through a lot of the time and um holding a lot in for myself. Um, and the more that I have broken out of that and brought more people into my life who love me for me and understand me and see me, the more beautiful and wonderful my life has gotten. And um, I'm far from perfect at it. Um, but yeah, it you you sharing that just made me kind of think through well some of my background as well.

Nathen 30:03

Okay, yeah. I'm happy that you're sharing it with everybody.

Colette 30:06

Yeah.

Asking For Help And Letting People In

Colette 30:07

Yeah, you were talking about having a hard time receiving help, and I resonate with that a lot. Um, because it just it feels it feels really intense. Um, especially if you were the person who took care of everyone growing up, which sounds like maybe you were uh in some regard, or the the person who needed to make sure that the person who needed the most help got the most help and it wasn't you.

Nathen 30:33

Um yeah, I guess it just sounds from me being like the older brother, yeah. The oldest in the family. So it's a big like weight, big responsibility that I put upon myself.

Colette 30:43

Yeah, me too. I was oldest as well. And yeah, there's just all this pressure that gets put on to us that um, you know, we kind of almost become the third parent.

Nathen 30:55

Yeah, yeah, right.

Colette 30:56

Um, and it's hard, it's hard to like shake that off. For me, it has been, but to Paige's point, like, yeah, when I've I've you know in the last few years become uh chronically ill and disabled and I need more help and I've gotten good about asking for help, it's still deeply uncomfortable. Don't like doing it. I'm like, when is this gonna get easier? When is this gonna stop sucking so bad asking for help? Um but I've I have found that my friendships, my relationships are much deeper because I am asking for help even whenever I'm uncomfortable. Um, and I've had a few folks tell me, like, I just appreciate you asking because you never ask for anything. Yeah. That's so nice.

Nathen 31:42

I get that a lot from time to time.

Colette 31:44

Yeah, yeah. It's and it's really sweet thing to hear, but it's also like, okay, I guess I'll do it more.

Paige 31:52

Can you give an example of some time like a friend has helped you and it's been really meaningful?

Colette 31:58

Um, well, Sam helped me bury my cat. Oh, yeah, okay in January. Yeah. And like we were we were digging a literal grave in my backyard. Yeah, but just being able to like I'm gonna cry a little bit. It's okay um because Sam Sam and I've spreadship is really precious to me. But um like just being able to goof off in the backyard while also navigating like watching my cat die. Um yeah, it was like a really important um for me to ask for that help because I physically cannot could not have done that myself. But then also I think I wanted to emotionally go that through that by myself, but I'm glad that you were there to do that with me. Um because like I had just kind of closed myself off in my house with my cat, which probably is not like the best way to deal with grief, but it's the way that I deal with grief is by like isolating myself. Um and it taught me like you shouldn't let people in a little bit more with your grief. Yeah, whatever it is. Yeah, for sure.

Sam 33:13

And we got a cool axe out of it. Oh, okay. Yeah, well, you're not you're missing, you're it came out, I think, on another episode, right? And it's like something like it's like so. We were burying, like we were we were digging a grave. We're digging a grave. Everybody's like, what? And I was like, I was like, it's not the first time.

Colette 33:30

And then that wow. Um yeah, Sam helps a lot with stuff that I just have around the house and my friend Alex. Um and I had a roommate BJ, he would always um put the dog food in the in the bin. I like if there's this big old bag of dog food, I can't necessarily handle it myself. Yeah, and it got to the point where I like I never had to ask him to do it, he would just do it. Yeah, and ever since he's moved out, um, there's a lot of things like that that he that he used to do that I didn't realize um how much easier he had made my life until he was gone. And he's not gone, gone. I think he's still alive. He's in Wisconsin. Yeah, I just want to say that after that's not one of the that's not one of the graves we dug.

Sam 34:17

That's not one of the graves we have.

Colette 34:20

Um, but I think I think that's what love is too, is like sometimes people just seep into your life, yeah, and they start to they start to take care of you um in like stealth ways. Yeah, yeah. Um because I definitely felt like that was stealthy on BJ's part. It wasn't again until you l left that I realized how many of those like um little things added up to a big a big act of love. Yeah.

Sam 34:48

Well, hello. Is somebody else want to be on the podcast? It's okay. Okay, it'll go away.

Colette 34:54

All right.

Missing People And Showing Love By Doing

Sam 34:56

Um, well, you know, you make I'll I'll say part of my answer because that's when I know that I love someone, and it's and it's one of those ubiquitous things I think that goes across to all of them is like I miss them.

Colette 35:08

I miss them.

Sam 35:09

Yeah, it's like uh and it you know, it shows up in different ways. It it could be like um well, like it could be something as simple as like uh well, I like it's I'll I'll use Morgan because that's easy. Uh, you know, I'll I'll be doing something. I'm like, oh, Morgan would just I start pretending in my head what how she would react, you know, what she would say and do, and I'll be like, but then I'm like, oh man, it'd be better if she would have been here for that. Um or like you know, same for Colette. I'll be like, Oh, I gotta tell Colette this, or you know, it's you miss them and you want to invite him in or like loop him into what's going on, and um and and and unrelated to that is what love looks like in action for me, is uh see it. I think that's what's easiest for me is I like to do things for people, you know. That's uh and I've gotten better at expressing myself with words and stuff, but uh I'm I've yeah, it I love doing things for people, and and I what I'm actually how I've actually grown into it and what I understand it is it's it's I like to care for people like and and to do something they can't do or do something or help them do something better or or uh take a load off of them or whatever. But but it's really taught me a lot about um receiving because that's that's probably the one thing that I do the worst at is receiving that from other people. Uh which is that I mean because there's you have to think about it two ways. It's not just the way you act, but how people act to you. And and one of the things I I realized I don't do well is is receiving that when how they because let's face it, expressing love, whether it's friendship, relational, there's a giving and there's a receiving in it. And um, and it's it's really unbalanced, it's it's unfair if I do all the giving and nobody else and they receive, but then they can't give anything to me. Yeah, you know, other than you know what I allow, which is race basically what I was trying to say to you, Nathan. It's just me controlling things in my relationship and and my feelings.

Paige 37:24

So well, with that, would you say maybe part of the definition of love is consideration?

Sam 37:31

Oh yeah, I like that. What do you what do you what do you mean?

Paige 37:34

Well, um like when you're talking, I was thinking of just the concept of missing someone. You're like you're considering them really. But then it's further too when you're thinking of like how would they respond to this, or how what would I what could I do to help them or be there for them? It's all consideration. Yeah, you know?

Sam 37:50

Yeah, it's a that's a good word. I haven't heard that word in a long time. No, no, no, never used it. That's that's yeah, you consider that because it's also the negative side too, like, oh, I don't want to do this because yeah.

Colette 38:01

It well, even in uh what you were talking about, Sam, about receiving like one thing that's helped me start receiving more uh openly is um that I had somebody tell me that uh I felt kind of unreachable because I wouldn't receive. Oh and knowing that that was like for me that was a big thing. Now I now I'm considering what would it feel like for this person if I rejected their offering of help? Yeah.

Sam 38:39

Oh, okay.

Colette 38:40

To the plan around consideration to to bring it back to yours. It's like, and that has helped me because I care, I really care deeply about what people how people feel um and how they feel in in the relationship too.

Paige 38:52

Yeah.

Colette 38:53

And it does it takes a brave person to say, like, would you just receive this gift or and support or like uh let us throw your freaking party like something? Um and I had a friend who had to like sneak attack me when I left Oklahoma City. Um it was his birth, same week of his birthday, and he invited me to his birthday party, which was a surprise going away party for me. Oh he said, I knew I had to make it a surprise because I knew you wouldn't freaking let me do it. And he's like, and like we need to say goodbye to you, and we need to like honor what you brought into this space. Um, and he's like, and I'm and I really need you to get it how frustrating it is that you don't that you don't ask or receive help. And that was like, oh, oh, I gotta start thinking about this more. Yeah. Um, like being so uh uh uh unable to uh receive support and uh and help. Yeah.

Sam 40:02

Yeah. That was a good friend.

Colette 40:05

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Shout out to Anthony.

Sam 40:07

Anthony? Yeah. We will remember him.

Colette 40:11

He's also not dead. We also did not bury him. Anthony is alive and well.

Sam 40:16

It's uh I don't know whether to be happy or sad that that's a that's not that as an addendum we're clarified.

Rhys 40:23

Yeah, you care somebody doesn't just take a 10 second snip of that.

Colette 40:27

Oh, that's right.

Sam 40:29

Day 43 of the trial, yet another podcast episode where offer some picture thought.

Kindness With Full Presence

Rhys 40:38

Let's go. So just to stir some conversation in this direction, so I was just listening to, which I highly recommend. My friend recommended a podcast called it's called On Being.

Sam 40:49

Oh yeah, Krista Tippett. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Rhys 40:51

And I listened to one with Shia's last name.

Sam 40:56

Is it the dude, the one that lives here now?

Rhys 40:59

No.

Sam 41:04

Wait a minute, which times has he been in jail?

Rhys 41:07

No, this is a uh rabbi. Oh, okay.

Sam 41:10

Okay, okay, okay, okay.

Paige 41:11

Wildly different than what I'm thinking of.

Rhys 41:13

His name is Shia Hell, not Shia LaBeouf, just to clarify. Although I'm sure Shia Buff would have a lot to say of entertaining things to say.

Sam 41:21

I think he literally lives probably about 10 blocks from here.

Nathen 41:24

So okay, that's a fun thing.

Rhys 41:26

He's on next. But he's a rabbi and he very recently wrote a book. Um, a very like well-esteemed rabbi um in the Jewish community, wrote a book called Judaism is about love. And um thank you. And um I I just I don't know, I fell in love with this podcast because he got a lot of criticism uh for it. Really saying, well, that's provocative and also my gosh, so hallmark that you would call Judaism is about love. Oh, all right. Um and he does kind of dive into like the Americanized version of entertainment and love is kind of like, yeah, their hallmark and romance and Valentine's Day and chocolates, and that it's actually been a very great disservice in the ways to the to love and to the concept of love. So love is conversation around was around like what is love? Um so I was laughing a little when Sam was challenging Paige to describe that because even like theologians and rabbis, like we all they're all asking themselves these questions over generations. And his I thought his definition was good. It's he said that um love is an act of kindness with full presence. Oh my god. Wow I like that. That is good. And I like that he didn't just stay at kindness, but with full presence. Yeah. Um, and a lot of what he talks about with the Torah and and and Judaism is that none, and you wouldn't love this, none of this religion, theology, organized, going to church on some none of that matters if we're not, if it's not refining our not only definition of love, but how we act out of the world. Okay. Um and yeah, I mean, I just was like, oh yes, you know, because it connects this idea of what is love to how are we showing it not only to the people we love in our inner circle, but like the whole world.

Sam 43:27

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Rhys 43:28

Um and his like last part of this was he was talking about how a a student in New York was learning underneath him and was walking down the streets of New York and there was a homeless man on the street, and uh he started crying when he was talking about this. It was awesome. But he's just saying, like, the student had been learning about okay, acts of kindness with full, full presence. Yeah. And he thought, you know what, this man probably hasn't had anyone ask him how his day is in like years. Yeah. So we just sat there on the mat with him for several hours. And so powerful, right? Like um So yeah, that's earlier I was asking what type of love are we talking about? Because love is universal. Yeah.

Paige 44:09

But yeah. Yeah.

Rhys 44:13

Well I like y'all get where I'm going. Full kindness. Say it again. Love is an act of kindness with full presence.

Colette 44:21

I think that's a challenge to those of us who want to like be self-sacrificial, so much so that we're like constantly giving. Because I don't know if I'm fully present when I'm constantly giving. No. Like I don't think I am. Uh so that's that feels like an appropriate kind of challenge for those who just give and give and give out of habit. That anytime you're operating in habit, you're not necessarily fully present.

Sam 44:47

Well, I mean, we don't have to start getting into like codependency or stuff like that. Because yeah, I mean, that's actually a really good way to when you when you tend to be like more of a give you like a giving person or a a caregiver, is like, yeah, am I just doing this as a knee-jerk reaction? Is this coming from you know my need to be needed or something? Or is this like, oh no, I'm I'm here, like all of me is here. The bad bits, too, the bad bits, but also the good bits are are here fully. I like that, fully present. I've been thinking a lot about that actually, fully present.

Paige 45:25

I was thinking earlier, and that this ties in with this, um, that a lot of these acts of love take time and energy. And in adulting, we're so busy, you know, so busy. And so to to really be intentional about carving out that time and energy to show the people we love those acts of love, um, just seems like really important and it's a good reminder to me.

Self-Love Through Honesty And Slowing Down

Colette 45:57

We're self-love in that too. Like the busyness to me feels is always even more so now that I'm dealing with like multiple chronic illnesses, is it it feels like violence if I'm too busy. My body absolutely rejects it. Yeah, it's like it's it's like a self-flagellation uh of my uh autoimmune system, you know? Yeah. Um and to slow down to me, I it is always about self-love. So I'm curious for y'all, like what other what is self-love in action look like?

Sam 46:34

I'm gonna come off a self-there's one word that Nathan said for me that that's the one single word I think about with that is honesty. Because I think I've never on I've never been honest with myself about actually what I need. And so uh and and in in in a lot of ways too uh it does go back to you know therap free th free therapy, spoiler for me, uh um is like my need to not be controlled. And so weakness means lack of control. And so uh I just don't, you know, I just don't be weak. You know, if I can just keep going and doing the same things and doing what I always do, but then yeah, me too. Like I've I mean shit, I'm getting old. And uh and uh and and honestly doing all that stuff for all those years was not healthy, and I probably am older physically and mentally now because of it, but it's like you just wake up and I that's part of the I was talking to Nathan, we talked last time about journaling. And it's like that's my time to be honest to go like I check in with myself emotionally and physically, and I just say it's just time for me to be honest. It's like, yep, I feel like shit today, and that means I'm not gonna be able to give as much today. Yeah, and it's like it's okay because that's the way I can care for myself because then I can care for people better, even though maybe not the the quantity or whatever, that's still what I got, and being fully present. Okay.

Paige 48:03

I'm really bad at this subject, so I don't take all advice on it. Yeah, I I stay very busy. It's I mean, and part of it's just the nature of work and life and kids and all of that. Um, but no, I I stay very busy, and um that's something I've been reflecting on a lot lately is like like you were saying, to me it some somewhat feels like a type of self-harm sometimes to to just keep going and and not pause, you know. Um but um but yeah, that's just as important. Yeah.

Music As Care And Creative Burnout

Nathen 48:38

SeSelf-love form building off what Sam said,journaling. Journaling has always been like my safe spot. I can be behaving really badly, having a great day, but if I journal something positive in there, whether it's even dark at times, not a great thing, but something that made me feel lighter, made me fun, made me remember some good times about anything,anybody, then that just makes my day. That's how I treat myself or care for myself. Listening to music that I like over and over. I mean, I have listened to it over and over. I'm a creature of habit, so I listen to the same five or ten songs over and over and over.lf-love for me building off what uh Sam said, journaling. Journaling has always been like my safe spot. It um I can be having a really bad day, having a great day, but if I journal something positive in there, whether it's even dark at times, not a great thing, but something that made me lighthearted, made me fun, made me remember some good times about anything, anybody, then that just makes my day. That's how I treat myself or care for myself. Listening to music that I like over and over. I mean, I have I listen to I'm a creature avid, so I listen to like the same five or ten music over and over and over.

Sam 49:21

Okay, number one, you gotta give number one then. What's your number one go-to? Dreams by Fleetwood Matt. Oh well chosen.

Paige 49:31

That is a good one.

Nathen 49:32

I thought right when you said it, I was thinking between How Deep is Your Love by BGs or Fleetwood Matt.

Sam 49:37

Sam, I didn't know you were this deep, Nathan. Yeah, this is me. You're gonna be you're getting the good catalog.

Rhys 49:45

Oh wow. Stevie Nicks at Jazz Fest.

Sam 49:47

Oh, I didn't know you know I had to.

Rhys 49:51

I know Saturday the 20th.

Sam 49:53

Yeah. Okay.

Paige 49:54

You knew exactly. Are you coming to see Stevie Nicks? Yes. I'll see you in the crowd. Yeah. Nice.

Nathen 50:05

Well now I gotta ask. Yeah. What would be your favorite music, your first music that you can think of?

Sam 50:11

You see, that's a loaded question for me. Uh that's a loaded question. Because actually, I I uh once again, uh pray for my therapist. But uh like I was I've been a musician all my life. Okay. Uh well, most of my life. And uh I music was my go-to for everything. Like I had, you know, all the stuff, and and I got so burned out playing it that I stopped even listening to music. Wow. And I didn't listen to music for like five years. Wow, can't even imagine. Yeah, and so it's actually like it only has been the last year that I've gotten back into listening to music. Wow, that's it. Uh, and so most of that's uh you can thank Morgan for that because she never stops listening to music, but it's always happening, yeah. And um uh but like there's been hey, my daughter's here. Hello, come on in.

Colette 51:09

Hello.

Sam 51:10

You want to be on the podcast? We're talking about love, it's great. No, everybody, that's my daughter, Faith. Hi, Faith. Hey, hello. I'm gonna leave this in. I like this. Um uh Morgan's at the back if you want to talk to her. Yeah, yeah, we're doing this in my house, everybody, because that's how we roll. And life happens. Yeah, um, but I but I've I've vacillated uh this is gonna sound bad. I I listened to I listen to tool a lot.

Paige 51:45

Yeah.

Sam 51:46

Tool? Yes.

Paige 51:48

You don't know what you gotta do. Is that what it's like?

Nathen 51:54

I'm thinking like some it's not we are friends and don't ever say that like that. First thing that came into my mind was like underground music. Is that what you mean?

Colette 52:05

Yeah.

Sam 52:06

No, tool if Tool is a prog rock band, progressive rock band that's been around since I saw, believe it or not, I saw them when they were on the second stage of Lollapalooza in 1994. Old man, I was three right before that was not necessary.

Paige 52:23

And it does get you.

Sam 52:27

Yeah, and uh um, but they are like I like him. I like it's the drummer, okay, because I'm a drummer, and uh, he is probably the best drummer that's ever lived, and but uh he is just phenomenal, and they have insanely deep lyrics.

Paige 52:43

What is one tool song that's like mainstream that I might know?

Sam 52:47

Oh my god. Probably if you if you typed in um Numa PN not going well so far. Yeah, no, they're not on they're not probably like uh well it's not like stink fists, so sober's probably their their big one. Yeah, I don't think from Blair. Well, well, don't worry. Uh now I have a cask.

Colette 53:10

Okay.

Sam 53:10

We're gonna we're gonna introduce you to the I didn't know you like tool.

Colette 53:14

Yeah, uh you know, I had I had my uh uh mosh pit days in high school.

Sam 53:19

Really?

Colette 53:20

See, but I was right with the see Islas like them.

Sam 53:23

The lyrics are great, like they're insanely good. Like I literally um I was talking to a um a church person the other day, a pastor, and there's well no no no no that's what I gotta say. One of those.

Rhys 53:36

Yeah, the church people. And uh her main cave. And I saw one in the wild.

Sam 53:53

I wouldn't say I wouldn't say I'm a church person. Uh I'm something else. Uh but they were um uh we were I'm never gonna come back to that.

Colette 54:05

We're gonna give you a name tag just to say I'm the church person.

Sam 54:10

Listen, believe it or not, I still am from Ohio, and so there's still that country in me. But um uh they have this line, it's the whole song's about televangelists, and it's it is called eulogy, and there's this one line he goes, uh, you said you would die for me, so why are you sad that I'm reading your eulogy? And so it's like a big commentary on like religion going away, but it's just like, wait a minute, isn't that what your religion says? That you're supposed to die to yourself, and so what do you care that you're dying? It's deep anyway. I can go on, but now you know why. Oh, okay, yeah, deep stuff. Now now I'm gonna have to have a listening party with you two. You you novices.

Paige 54:44

That's something that needs to come back. Listening parties, yes, come on. You need to insert the song at the end of the this podcast. That's all that's everybody out with.

Sam 54:53

Yeah, ooh, that'd be tough. That'd be tough.

Purpose, Commitment, And Being Seen

Rhys 54:58

So, oh, I'm gonna answer one. I never actually answered the love and asked for peace. I'm just gonna say one thing. I think I've learned, at least personally, I don't know how like my first love was always all the dreams that I've had for myself. Ooh, okay. I think that has I really reflect, I'm like, wow, obviously my sister and my niece, but like I'm like, I will do anything for those dreams. I will sacrifice jobs and money and lifestyle to pursue my dreams. And I was like, this must be what it's supposed to feel like with somebody I'm in love with. Oh, wow. Is that when I wake up in the morning and I, you know, I'm still looking for a job, but I'm not taking that corporate job because I know that I'm supposed to be some sort of spiritual leader of some sort, like, but I'm and I know the consequences, but I'm still doing it. That's gotta be what it is, right? It's about commitment to this purpose that I have.

Sam 55:59

We never mentioned the word commitment, which is obviously pretty big in that.

Rhys 56:03

And Chaya, not LaBeouf, but hell, does talk about that. And he says, like, he's like, love is can't always be abundant. There's no way you can come home and feel a hundred percent compassionate for your partner every day. Like it's just you're a human being, you're not gonna always feel abundant. But there is abiding love, oh, yeah, which is a commitment to I am here, I'm present, showing up, even if it's just a shit day.

Sam 56:31

Yeah.

Rhys 56:32

Um, and so anyway, I'm personally gonna take that into my next uh committed relationship because I think that's the thing I haven't found yet in a uh romantic relationship is a full abiding love with and a willingness and a wantingness to sacrifice. Oh I think that's where it comes down to for me.

Paige 56:52

Can I ask what your Enneagram number is? Oh yeah. Sorry.

Rhys 56:58

Oh Lord, I think I'm a four. What's a four?

Paige 57:02

That sounds like a four with a strong three wing. No, real.

Rhys 57:06

That's real.

Sam 57:06

You and Morgan are exactly the same.

Rhys 57:09

Oh, really?

Sam 57:10

Yep.

Rhys 57:11

I wanted to be a seven, but it was like that's totally four to one to be a seven. It is isn't four like identity. Tell me about fours, they're like super identity attached or something. I think you'd be better at explaining.

Sam 57:22

Well, fours are um, gosh, I have to pull it out. Uh we should really pull out Morgan right now because she's the authority. Um, well, they uh what I one the one word I always come about is like the the uniqueness. You know, they need to be unique, uh they need to be seen. Um, but then they but it on the ver reverse side, they they feel very deficient in themselves. Yeah. Uh and um, but yeah, and there a lot of times, you know, maybe I'll put a I have to put a like a something in here about the Enneagram in case anybody knows it. You know, it's um there is a there is a a lot of fours are are are creative people. Yeah, that's what I was just looking at definitely. A lot of fours are creative people, yeah, yeah.

Rhys 58:05

And it's just like this constant. So when this woman did the Enneagram for me, and I was like, I'm not a seven, no, that's not true. I'm unique and awesome. And she's like, uh, that's what a four would say. Yeah, definitely. I get it. I get it. So yeah, I think that's what it is for me. It's like an all-in, um, and for better or for worse, I guess, right? Like, but it's an all in sense that the person I'm with also is uh aligned to just my sense of purpose and like yeah, which is a tall ask for someone. I mean, so maybe that's not great, but I'm not sure.

Sam 58:38

Well, you know, that that makes me think of something. Another aspect of it is um, you know, part of loving somebody is is loving who they are, all of them.

Paige 58:50

Yeah, right.

Sam 58:51

You know, because yeah, I uh I've passed the the stage in my life where it's like, oh, you know, my relationship, all my relationship, especially my you know, my marriage is just perfect. It's just like uh no, that's not true. You know, there's uh but I made sure, I mean Colette did our wedding, I made sure to say, like, I love all of you. I love the good bits, I love the not so good bits, and um in a in the bits I don't, you know, love, I'm gonna learn. Right, you know, right and realize, well, because she gets annoyed with me sometimes because when she does something that upsets me, I want to know why, where that comes from in her, because I want to understand it. Because once I get down to understanding it, it's hard to get annoyed and like or like pissed off when it's like, oh, this is us this wound from a childhood, or this is her, you know, uh, you know, because yeah, a fours they need to be unique in individual individuals, and yeah, you know, and uh and so you have to honor that sometimes. You know, we have to honor it. Yeah.

Paige 59:50

Well, it's very much like a commitment to growing together, too. I would say my wife and I, we've been married five years now, and we are wildly different people than when we originally got together. Um, and that's been really cool and freeing and amazing to like have someone to do this life with that she's changed so much and I've changed so much, and we're still loving each other as we evolve at the same time.

Colette 1:00:15

So I I'm thinking now I'm thinking about my friends from high school because like we've known each other through so many different iterations of identity um and haven't even really lived in the same place in a decade, probably. Um, but like, how is it that we still love each other? It's because we have kind of weathered the different identity storms, yeah. Uh, including me being just so annoyingly zealous uh for religion. And I once asked my friend Jordan, like, why the hell did you endure that? Because like I was having a hard time loving that part of myself. And um, and he said, I just knew that wasn't who you really are. Wow. And I'm like, that's love. That's love. Somebody who does actually know who you really are when even when you've lost yourself, um, who can kind of and still give you the space to find that out on your own on your own. Right. Yeah. Wow.

Sam 1:01:16

Now I see why you've been friends with them so long. That's really good friends.

Colette 1:01:20

Really good friends. Yeah. Um, because yeah, I was intolerable to beer. Well, I can relate to that. Um so yeah, I think that's probably part of the how you know you love someone is uh when you're willing to put up with just the the absolute nonsense women they sometimes get up to. Uh, not just to roll over and like take it all the time, not endorsing abuse or anything like that, but somebody who's willing to say, like, this is not who you really and truly are, and kind of help you come back to yourself. Yeah.

Rhys 1:01:52

Well, about being C, I think. Doesn't Jesus talk about that all the time? Always trying not just oh no, no, no, no, but he is. I mean, it's like I think true love is that it's being fully seen for who you are, yeah, and safely held in that. Yeah, when you're seen, it's like at least for at least for four, it's like one of the best things to ever happen. Trinity seen for who you are and what you can contribute, and your strengths and all these great things.

Sam 1:02:19

It's like I can breathe up again. Yeah, you know. Um true. I think we all want that to a certain degree. Yeah, four's more than most, but yeah, you definitely I know. I mean, I I'll take it. No shame.

Rhys 1:02:33

Well, you you guys are number one at it, hey. Yeah, I mean, there you go. Well, and uh well, I I'll end it at this. I I I like to think and I think I am really good at seeing other people. Sometimes it is also though hard to see myself, and all of it's all my faults. Yeah, right, because you don't want your yeah, so that fills back to the self-love piece too.

Sam 1:02:57

Well, I wonder, uh you know, as I've gotten older, I uh you know, it it uh that's why I like this question. And it is I'm interested to see what happens in the big group, uh, because we still couldn't really define what it is, you know, right? And uh and it's interesting, you would think uh Colette's heard me say this a billion times, it's like, why didn't they teach this shit, you know, as soon as we're born, right? Instead of like, yeah, I want to learn math, and that's great, and history's awesome, but can you tell me what the fuck love is? And you know, like how to do it right and how to love myself and how to love other people well, and oh, there's the whole world, and and because yeah, it's not this simple thing. And and we do, I think we settle a lot for this uh the shelf of what love is.

Colette 1:03:45

Yeah. Or we start to try to seek it out, and when we get it, we don't re realize how empty it can be. Yeah. Um I think it's probably why the divorce rate is as high as it is, and why people are as lonely as they are. Yeah. It's because they're seeking out something that isn't actually of m as much substance as they could could have.

Sam 1:04:03

Yeah, you know. Well, because yeah, like love is like I mean, I'm not I think Bernae, I saw Brene Brown said this one time, and you it's what you were saying, Reese. It was like, yeah, it's it's not this this hallmark card thing. It's like and it's not 50-50. Like that was the quote she was saying, is like everybody says like love's 50-50, and that's horse shit. You know, it's it's it's like no, it's just 70-30, maybe, you know, and sometimes you get it, and sometimes you're hogging the 30% for a while, and it's and but no one ever tells you that. And then, yeah, because then people are never prepared for it and never can weather it, or even have conversations about it. Like, hey, I know you're having a selfish like run right now, and that's cool. Let me know. Can we can we put an end date on it? You know, so I can get can you tell out? So you think we covered it?

Colette 1:04:57

I think I think we fixed the world's love problem.

Sam 1:05:00

So why didn't we just do this earlier then? What

How To Join The Conversation

Sam 1:05:04

the heck?

Colette 1:05:04

Um, and so that's it for today's Curious Conversation. Thank you uh for joining us with our curious conversation partners today. Uh, you can find out more about them in the show notes or come and ask them at the next Curious Crew Gathering, uh, which you can also find that information of where we meet, uh how we meet, and uh, and all of that in our show notes as well.

Sam 1:05:26

Yeah. Well, thank you all for um letting the curiosity, your curiosity get the better of you today. We'll be back around the table soon. Maybe not in my house, uh, but we'll be back around a table soon uh with another question, another curious question. So until then, stay curious. Thank you for taking the time to listen to this episode of the Curious Crew podcast. If there's something or someone in this conversation that made you curious, we want to include you in this conversation, and there's a link to that in the show notes. If you want to pull up a chair in person, we'd love to see you at our monthly gatherings. The link with dates, details, and ways for you to RSJP are in the notes as well. Do you have questions or curious about starting a curious crew in your area? Shoot us an email, which is found in our show notes. Thank you for letting your curiosity get the better of you today. We'll be back around the table again soon with another curious question. Until then, stay curious.