The Curious Krewe Podcast
Curious Krewe invites real people into thoughtful, listening-first conversations that turn curiosity into connection.
The Curious Krewe Podcast
Big Ask: Questions, Peace, and Oreos
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We handed the table a deceptively simple prompt this month... if you could ask the whole world one question to help people grow, what would it be? Turns out that's a bit like asking someone to pick one food to eat for the rest of their life, which, yes, we also did, and yes, someone did try to switch their answer from leafy greens to Oreos mid sentence.
Sam kicks it off with a question a mentor once ambushed him with... what's it like to be on the other side of me? The table promptly puts it on trial. Too pointed? A setup? A journal prompt in disguise? Somewhere in the friendly cross examination, something honest shakes loose about how we come across versus how we hope to.
Then Rhys asks what brings you peace, not happiness, and the whole conversation tilts. Are peace and happiness two different things, or two sides of the same coin? Is peace the boulder in the river or the reed that bends with it? Khadeja offers a line that stopped us cold... peace is static, happiness is dynamic... and then admitted she'd figured that out about four seconds earlier, live, at the table. And Khadeja closes with a question that has teeth... can you even measure kindness, and are you sure you want to know what it says about you if you try?
It is warm, it is a little nosy in the best way, and it wanders exactly where good conversations wander. Come for the almond butter evangelism, stay for a genuinely moving turn on speech, teasing, and learning to be kind to people who were not kind to you first.
Grab a pen. You'll want to gather some good of your own.
Press play... and stay curious.
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Until then, Stay Curious!
Cold Open And Friendly Banter
RhysSo, Reese, do you want to kick us off with that? Sure do. So make sure to share your name, introduce the curious question, and how it works.
ColetteThis is why you need a script, man. Wait a minute. That was what I was saying.
SamYou mixed it up on me. Yeah, I was trying to get I was on I was honestly trying to honor your your your uniqueness and your own creative. Well, you got it. Alright, anyway. That's a prime example of how we can do TikTok. Oh, that was cute. I liked it. Yeah.
RhysAlright. Rewind. Let's get this thing started.
Welcome And What We Practice Here
SamDo you ever wish for a place where you can ask real questions without a fight? Do you ever want to sit with people who see the world differently than you and still feel connected? Do you ever crave a circle that listens more than it lectures and leaves you a little more human than when you arrived? If this is you, welcome to the Curious Crew Podcast. One honest question with many voices and with real connection. It's where we listen first and we practice curiosity with kindness and then become curious friends together. So without further ado, let's get curious. But we're going to do what we always do and start off with something that's just has absolutely nothing to do with what our main question is. So, Reese, you want to kick us off with that?
One Food Forever And Nostalgia
RhysMy name's Reese. I use they them pronouns. And the curious question today is if you could only eat one food for the rest of your life and never get sick of it, what would it be? Oh my.
SamThe table is open. The table is open.
KhadejaIt would be rice for me. It's delicious, it's versatile, it's a staple in my culture. It also connects culture because rice is the most important staple. I favor jasmine rice, but I also like sticky rice. Growing up, when my sister moved to college, money was tight because my mom and my parents were too busy paying for tuition. So my grandma gave me like a bag of rice and like eggs and a rice cooking. She told me, like, make your breakfast each day so you have something to eat. And I just grew to make like slightly sweet rice with slightly salty eggs, and it just pair together so well. So rice always has like a special place in my heart. If I'm ever feeling nostalgic, I can always make sweet rice with salty eggs and it'll just take me home.
SamSweet rice with salty eggs, yeah. What kind of how sweet? And what do you use to sweet? Just normal sugar?
KhadejaYeah, yeah, just normal sugar, a little butter, a little salt, a little sugar. I don't make it super sweet. I just make it so like you can taste them like, okay, this has a little bit of sugar in it. And for the eggs, I don't really over salt the eggs, but I do make sure that they are well seasoned. Interesting.
SamAnd is that you said jasmine rice, so is that your I love jasmine rice. Okay.
ColetteYou're speaking Sam's language because he really only eats rice. I'm not a fan of Bosmati. I don't care for that at all.
SamI don't know who love basmati. You do? Mm-hmm. That's my favorite. Well, we're gonna need to talk then.
ColetteYeah. And for the listener, that was Khadijah. Yes. Welcome Khadija.
SamRice. I see okay. I see you. Thank you. I see you.
RhysI uh really gave this a thought. And I was like, I don't know if I could eat it every day, but I would say it would be a sad life without chocolate mousse with chocolate chips in it. Ooh.
SamWait a minute. Do you just do you pick this up from the store, chocolate mousse, or you make it chocolate mousse?
RhysNo, I never I don't make anything, unfortunately. But I get a uh if you ever go to Crepe Tondu restaurant, shout out slightly biased. You work there every now and then. Um the mousse there is just phenomenal. Oh, I bet. And it I think it has little morsels of chocolate in it. I don't know, but it is very magical.
SamI'm sure it is.
RhysYes. And then my backup option is lobster.
SamThat's that's a that's a that's a big switch. Oh I've been to Maine.
RhysYeah. How much butter do you add to your lobster? So much ridiculous amount of butter with a little claw, and you take I'm sorry for the animal people out there, but anyway, it's really good.
SamI will say, and I know nobody's gonna understand this, but I could I and I literally do, I eat crunchy almond butter from Trader Joe's at least twice a day. At least twice a day. It's my main food staple. And uh yeah, I would never I have I I think I've eaten that for 15 years. Wow. Twice a day. I'll even have I even have almond butter packets I take with me everywhere. Like if I need a quick pick-me-up, I'll like whoop like Popeye and spinach.
ColetteYeah.
SamBut me and me and almond butter. So there you go. If you ever say, Oh, Sam's the quick get the almond butter. Yeah, right. Get the IV of almond butter. Yeah. Although I will say Trader Joe's crunchy is like chef's kiss. So and I'm an authority on this.
ColetteI'm sure you're outstanding.
SamI have standing.
ColetteYou only eat like five things, so it makes sense that you would have a high opinion of one of them at least. Ten. Ten.
SamTen. Excuse me. Yes. Sorry. Just want to spread misinformation.
ColetteOh, I'm a little bit conflicted because I am a novelty kind of eater or seasonally, and I'll eat the same thing for like three months and then I'll get sick of it and never eat it again. So I don't know if I'm capable of eating the same thing every day. But if I was, it would probably be mac and cheese.
SamOkay.
ColetteUm, I like like baked mac and cheese and I like making baked mac and cheese of all different varieties. Um, but I I can get down with like velvet shells. I'm not like a huge fan of the powdered, like craft mac and cheese. Um, I think probably because I I did eat it almost every day as a child. So I'm a little ruined on it. But um yeah. Like a I want a pile of expensive cheese inside of that dish.
SamYeah.
ColetteI once made like a hundred dollar yeah. I had like a hundred dollars worth of cheese in this giant, you know, giant baked pan of cheese. What kind of mac and cheese? It was like Gruyere, yeah. Really expensive parmesan. I think we had some manchego in there. Like it was it was a lot of different um different kinds. I want to say there was five of them, yeah. Nice. How did it taste any better? Oh yeah. I I like there is a you can taste the uniqueness of each cheese, you know, whenever you put more than one in there. Um and I like a kind of like um punchy cheese. Uh so I yeah, I think it's I think it's better.
SamDo you do you have a go-to baked macaroni chain? No.
ColetteNo, you I like I'm I'm a novel tea person. Like I know.
SamI don't know why I ever ask you. Yeah.
RhysYou're also a maximalist novelist.
ColetteYeah. Look, I d I I don't want to make a choice, okay? When it comes to food and and art and decorate like I don't I don't want to choose, I don't want to choose.
SamYeah. Well, I I can you believe I never had baked macaroni and cheese until I moved down here?
ColetteYeah.
SamYeah. And I had it from this Italian woman from the West Bank. And it was with the it was with the new with the the sh uh, whatever the normal noodles was, but then she put that thick spaghetti in it. And she did it. Oh, you know what I'm talking about? I was like, okay, I see why people like this.
RhysYeah.
SamYeah.
RhysI don't want to make a choice. I like that. I don't want to make a choice. We can get down with that for sure.
SamWell, I think that's what that's have you just Abby now.
AbbyJust Abby.
RhysUm that'd be a great podcast name. Just Abby. That's cute. Just Abby.
AbbyAbby normal. Um leafy greens.
RhysOoh.
AbbyAnd that is such a problem right now.
ColetteYeah. If anyone's likely to get a parasitic worm, you're gonna get it.
AbbyNo, because I stopped eating it. Um I've stopped eating, and so it's very hard for me to come up with meals now. And um Yeah.
SamDo you eat that like that much?
AbbyYeah. I mean, I I was thinking about it and I'm like, I eat lettuce at lunch every time, and I eat lettuce or some sort of lettuce, you know, kale, arugula, um, spring mix, whatnot. And so I yeah, I I keep I'm like, oh, I want a hamburger. No lettuce is on a hamburger, and I can't eat a lettuce hamburger without lettuce.
RhysYou know, so question did you eat some lettuce before you heard about the news?
AbbyAbsolutely, well, yeah.
RhysYeah.
AbbyWhat do you mean?
RhysI mean in the in the 24 hours leading up to that breakout because I had one one solution is that I had started eating spinach before I heard about the news. But then I was like, but I'm not sick on the spinach that I currently am eating. So if I can still continue to eat out of that one for as long as it's not perishable, this is a workaround.
AbbyYes. No, I threw mine out. Yeah, I know.
RhysBut although what's it's not worth the risk, you're right.
AbbyWell, that and also I was just like, because they're they're saying that it's like a two-week period where like it can be in you. And so I'm like, okay, I have some lettuce in the fridge right now.
ColetteOh no.
AbbyI don't know. I I mean don't take my word for it because I I don't know what's right and wrong, but I would just be weary safe.
SamSee, I w I I haven't I purposely don't watch the news, but so I've heard of this. So is it like all lettuce everywhere, or is it just bag lettuce, or is this from a certain manufacturer or I think news is coming out every day um on it.
AbbyThey were just like, but to be safe, you want to like anything that you can't cook um because it can't like just washing it is not gonna get rid of it.
RhysSo that's unfortunate.
AbbyVery unfortunate.
ColetteOh, you should eat I I love to saute dandelion greens. Ooh, yeah so I wonder if sauteing arugula would have similar a saute d'arrugula in like dandelion greens or recent.
AbbyI love them, but I'm also very particular about it. Like I literally like look at each leaf before I eat. So like if there's a soggy one in there, it stresses me out. So I I endorse this. Yeah.
SamWho wants to do that?
AbbyI know. Right. So I changed my answer to Oreos.
SamWait a minute. We just had this whole conversation.
ColetteWow. This was too much. Whoa. It's an emotional wish flash man.
AbbyI'm just saying, like I can't eat the leafy green. So I'm gonna eat Oreos.
SamOkay. Oh, fair. That's you should think have you seen those? Uh now you got me like one to solve this problem for you. I'm moving. Have you seen those um they're like standing uh you know what I'm talking about?
AbbyWhere you you like grow your own lemon?
SamAnd they're like, I think they're dirtless or hydroponic or whoever is the owner of these we sponsor us. Yeah.
AbbyPlease.
SamI would be so happy. So Abby can stop eating Oreos and eat something actually good for her. Yeah. Yeah.
AbbyI'm here for it.
SamYeah.
AbbyPlease, please.
The Curious Code For Conversation
ColetteWell, that that is our curious quickie discussion. And we're all nice and warmed up now. So let's get into the curious code before we enter our official curious question this week. Um, so Reese, will you kick us off with the first curious code?
RhysSo, first, respect beats being right always.
SamAnd we also always make room for fun and helps us uh connect.
RhysWe always listen first, and more than you talk, respond with curiosity, questions before conclusions.
SamAnd this is the newest one. Gather the good. We leave uh with something worth carrying. Um it's new, like I said, and everybody here and everybody in our in-person uh gatherings uh has a pen and a pad. Because as people share, we can just write stuff down that hits us, whether it's books or quotes or ideas or or or what have you. And at the end of it, um we we share just one thing from that, but also we've been collecting them, and in the future, we're gonna have a place where everybody can take a look at it from uh each podcast episode, each each gathering, so people can learn the good that everybody else got to learn.
RhysSo all right. So now that we've wrapped up the code, let's get into the curious question uh Du jour.
One Question For The Whole World
RhysIf you could ask the entire world one question to help people grow, what would it be? No pressure.
SamI was legitimately shocked when everybody picked this.
ColetteYeah, I don't even think I picked this. I was like, I don't want to answer that. No click other question.
SamNo, I was really surprised. So I'm really surprised how this is gonna go and how next the the in-person is gonna go. I won't pressure. I'll go. I won't I'm gonna go first.
ColetteYou want to go first? I think that's a great idea.
SamI never I never I don't end up at the bottom.
RhysI mean, you are so humble, usually are the last one to speak, is what I meant to say.
SamBecause I talk too much typically. I know my weakness. Um okay, here it goes. Uh
Feedback And The Fear Of Intimidation
SamI don't know, like last podcast we were talking, and I I said this thing about being intimidating, and you know, that was a whole conversation. But I remember there was um I was still it was probably about uh 12 years ago, maybe, maybe a little bit longer than that. And um I was uh I got I got to be friends with this one gentleman and uh kind of became a mentor of mine. And um I think one day I was just popping off and and bitching about somebody and situation, this and that. And uh he was always he's he was always very good on how he asked questions, and and but he said he was can I share something with you? He's like, Yeah, and it's like it's actually a question I want you, I want to, I want to tell you what it is, and I want you to say it. And I'm like, okay. And because you're gonna ask me this question when I ask you. And he goes, and I said, okay, what is it? He goes, I want you to say, what's it like to be on the other side of me? Yeah. And I was just like, wait a minute, you want me to ask you that right now? He's like, yeah. He's like, I say, what's it like to be on the other side of me? And boy, they didn't tell me. And he told, and I he told me several things that I I just had no idea about. And one of the things he said was, he goes, You're intimidating. And I was, and and I was like, What? And at first I was, you know, and actually I was kind of pissed at him because I was just like Yeah, he set you up. Yeah. And um, but then after I cooled down a little bit, I was with uh it was several days later, and I was with a friend of mine that I worked with really closely, and I asked her, I was just like, hey, this this this fucking dude, he asked me this question. You know, he's such a jerk. But he asked me this question, he goes, So I'm gonna ask you. He goes, Like, what's it like to be on the other side of me? And uh I she said nice things, but she said a couple things that I was like, oh, and then what is the one thing she said? You're intimidating. And everybody I asked that question to said I was intimidating. And uh, and I remember what it made me, it actually at once I I was angry at first because like I'm not intimidating, as I, you know, my my shirt rips, and you know, my veins pop out of my my face. I'm not intimidating, tell me I'm intimidating. But um I I really got to the point where I was like, oh, I don't I don't want people to think I'm intimidating. Like that's the last thing I want to do. And um and so it really opened my eyes a lot. And I I don't ask that I don't use that question like so much as that anymore, that statement. But I I mean I think if if everybody asked themselves or or took that question and asked the people they care about, you know, around them, I think they'd be shocked in good and you know, probably some negative ways about what they would hear. But I think that uh uh to me, in a lot of ways, yeah asking that question and hearing people's responses was uh if I'm gonna be uh I guess honest about it, is I think that was probably the first time I was I I I was kind of self-aware. You know, I was like, oh, I d it allowed me to be like, oh, I am this. And then I did start to see this in me, you know, how it could be intimidating. So yeah, what's it like to be on the other side of me? And I don't want anybody to answer that question. So no, no, just joking, just joking.
AbbyWhat what do you think it is?
SamWhat do you what what is it like to be on the other side of me?
AbbyYes.
SamI don't uh before I had all kinds of answers, but um ultimately I I I don't know I hope I hope that people feel like I like oh Sam is really listening to me, or Sam is um really cares about you know what I'm saying or or what I'm trying to share or what I'm doing. Um I think uh in a weird way, I I I really hope people think I'm uh I don't want to say a cheerleader, but very supportive, you know, I encouraging to for whatever they're doing. But um I just know I don't I would rather not that the the intimidating word is not the word I want to hear. So but if it is, I mean, but Berndon was honest when she said it. She goes, You're intimidating. It's just like, I don't look shit. Do you remember though what she's why she said she felt that? Yeah, I remember, which was nice. That's a nice that's kind of it's nice. It's also like, well, shit, I don't want to have everybody think I'm just like, tell me about your your deepest soul. You know, you know, it's I don't want to do that, but you know, I it was it that was better than the other answer I used to get. So yeah.
RhysWhat about intimidating bothers you? That word.
SamOkay, okay. It's what's your rate, therapist, Reese? What's your rate?
RhysUh it's about 85.
Sam85. So you're still getting your hours up. A minute, yeah. Noted. Uh I don't want to be my dad. Don't want to be my dad. Uh, although I love him, he's passed, but I love him. But um, he was a scary individual, and everybody was always scared of him. And uh, and I remember I mean him worked together for a very brief amount of time at the same factory. Uh, and um I remember we somehow ended up on the same shift for a little while, and so we I got to eat lunch with the same people, and and then my dad wasn't around, and I was sitting down with some of all the same co-workers we had, and it's and and of course Stuom leaned in and was like, So, your dad, how do you deal with that? You know, I was just like, What do you mean? You know, yeah, and he's like, He's he's scary as fuck, and I'm like, you're correct. So, but yeah, he was just a very intimidating person, and and and I think there was part of me that wanted to be that way because you can protect yourself that way easily. Uh, and there's a whole bunch of stuff with that. But you know, especially as I got older and you know, started to realize that you know I did want to be m not that and in much more tangible ways. Um yeah, that's the last thing. I just I just don't want to be that. I want to be I want to be intimidating at the right times. Uh-huh. Yeah. You know, because I I think I'm always gonna be a protective person. Yeah. I think that's just my my energy in life.
RhysCause I was gonna ask, um, do you think there's a way you could relate to that word or the energy behind it in a way that feels good for you?
SamI mean, I uh it's that's a good question. I liked uh that was a f when when Brenda said what she said last time, I was like, okay. That actually I I don't want I don't want people to feel that in a intrusive or negative way, but that's how I heard it and how I'll take it is like, oh, that means I'm locked in and she feels like, oh, he really does want to know what I think about this and how I feel about it. So I feel good about that.
ColetteOkay.
SamYeah. Yeah.
ColetteYeah. For me, intimidation's been about like intensity. I've been I've also been called intimidated. Yeah. Intimidating a lot. Uh Um less mm frequently, but I I I think the the thing that you were saying around that you around your dad, to me it sounds like you you don't want people to f be as be scared of you. Yeah. I think that's something that's important to think about. And that question of I'm curious if if this question is different than like how do you want people to feel about you? Because I feel like we've had a similar conversation maybe in Curious Crew, maybe live in Curious Crew, uh how how do you want people to feel about you? Oh yeah. That was kind of like the last one. Yeah, kind of like the last one.
SamYeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. But I I mean, I think the question is, I don't know, what do you guys think? I mean, like if you how does that question hit you? Like if you were to ask that to other people, do you want people to answer that question?
AbbyOr I feel like that question comes off as negative no matter what. Like puts like my guard up when I hear it. So I feel like, oh, you want me to find something negative.
SamOh, okay.
AbbyAbout like if someone asks you that, they're not asking you for your good qualities.
ColetteLike they're trying, it feels like the image of the question is like I'm a person here and you are opposite of me. The other side of me just creates this oppositional image to me. So I I've I am also I I said when you first said I was like, that dude set you up to hear something that you weren't ready to hear, and that's not cool to me.
SamYeah.
RhysUm, if like I I would feel immediately defensive if versus like, what is it like to receive me or what is it like to receive my love?
ColetteYeah. What's it like to experience my presence? Yeah, right. I just feel like there's better ways to to ask the question.
SamUm I wonder too if it's maybe the question itself is not the issue. It's it's like maybe some of the work leading like the words leading up to it, you know, or maybe even behind it. Maybe. You know, it's just like because yeah, if you just ask it like that, there is things like, well, I just really how do yeah. Uh it's an easy way to remember to ask the same questions, like, how do you experience me? You know, in positive and you know, not so positive ways. Or and you know, I'm not gonna get my feelings hurt because I generally want to know. I'm asking you to be affirmed while also I want to improve. And so maybe that's it.
ColetteYou to be a little Yeah, I don't know.
AbbyI feel I was asking that.
KhadejaYeah, I felt like this would be a great question to write down in your journal, honestly. But for someone to just come up to you and just say, like, how do you feel on the other side of me? It feels like that's a very targeted and directed question, almost as if they have a motive in mind.
ColetteIt might be a better question to provoke some sort of empathy, like to wonder how do people feel or how do people What the hell is the question? Um yeah, what's it like to be on the other side of me and think like, well, what would my what would my spouse say? What would my friends say? What would my teachers say? What would my coworkers say? And how is it different? How is it the same? I feel like that's an interesting self-reflective question to your point, Khadija.
SamI wonder, would you think it would be I mean, obviously you'd have to have a very secure or safe relationship, but then to share those, like that reflection with that person?
ColetteTo like check it out? Yeah, I think that's more effective way to get feedback is checking something out rather than like setting yourself up for hearing things that you're not ready for. Um when I'm working with students, one of my biggest pet peeves is whenever we ask we ask like what kind of feedback do you want? And they say anything, you're not ready for anything. Uh I know it. You clearly are delusional and don't know it.
SamYeah.
ColetteUm, and so I tell my students, like, no, you are giving up your agency when you say anything. This question feels like asking for anything. And you your system may not be ready, you know, to hear anything that some folks might say. And also, you know, you need to be think thoughtful about who you're asking this question of and who you're who you're getting feedback from. Like I don't care what all my coworkers necessarily uh how I don't uh, you know, or um people who I I don't we've talked about this. Um people I don't hold in regard. Yeah. I'm not necessarily going to ask their opinion of how they feel about me or think about me.
SamI like the the the the using it as an introspective tool. And then if if the next if the next if you feel comfortable with the next step is then to share that with that person. That that makes it much much softer and actually pr more productive. Because then yeah, you you you wrote your shit. And then the person can just kind of say, Yeah, that's right. I've and then elaborate are like, I don't sense this so much, but you know, maybe then you can get to something better. So it's a much more round softer round like a rounded edges, healthier conversation. That's good, okay. Thanks. So I'll have to write him and say, fuck you, buddy. You should ask me a lot nicer. For me, well, I would just be fair, like I you know that Clett knows this about me, and Reese's learning it, and you guys are gonna learn. Is like I I usually like to be like direct, you know, like um I like having direct feedback. And uh you know, I guess is uh you know, sometimes uh I mean y usually the direct feedback I get from everybody is is hell i is never h hurtful, you know, especially when I'm saying, well, no, tell me, tell me what you think. But um but I know not everybody's like that.
ColetteI would say most people.
SamYeah.
ColetteAnd um even if even people who are like, yeah, I like it direct, sometimes you still have to keep saying the same thing to them, which I know is the case for Sam at times. Gets the same feedback over and over and over again. Um working on it. And I'm not I'm not being that I'm not the one who's doing that. I know it's coming from multiple sources. So that's not me being like snarky. Um like even the people who need need it direct or want it direct still need a softness. Because like defensiveness, it's just this to me, I think it's just a a natural mechanism. We're we're all going to defend ourselves and like we all need to protect ourselves. And so for feedback to come in a way that's like pal not palatable, but um uh no digestible is important.
SamYeah.
AbbyBut also, what if he's not ready to hear it?
ColetteExactly.
RhysYeah.
AbbyHe'll hear it when he's supposed to hear it.
RhysYeah. Yeah. Sam, really quick personal anecdote. When I met you that first time at um we had coffee. Oh yeah. Um, I've also been told multiple times that I'm intimidating and somebody even said brutal. What you? Uh-huh. That's funny. It does often come, and I'm not trying to like bucket, but it has often come from um men, especially men who might who are interested in my sister.
SamInteresting.
RhysWhich I really like because I feel like good, I'm projecting good big brother vibes, or like twin brother vibes or sibling vibes, you know, like they should feel a little because you know, I am protective. And I think but when I met you, I did not feel intimidated. In fact, I felt an equal match. Oh. That's good. Yeah. I feel good about it. I was like, hmm, who is this guy? Okay.
SamOkay.
RhysA little challenge like a healthy challenger energy. Oh, good.
SamOh, thank you. I'll start crying. That's that's the best thing I ever want to hear.
RhysYeah, seriously though.
SamYeah, good. Good. Because I that is I've Morgan, my wife and I talk a lot about this, because like I I am a challenger. Like, I I don't and I've had to curve curb that a lot, you know, because like I'll question everything, I'll push all the time on everything when you don't even need to. You know, it's just like, you know, you said something like powdered mac, you know, I could be like, why don't you like powdered mac and cheese? What's wrong with the powder? You know, just like tell me all, you know, it's just like what are you challenging this for? But um, but I but learning to do it well and and where not to use a um uh one of the references I that helped me balance that was actually from the Christian tradition. And in the in that tradition they talk about um you know Jesus in particular, and there's this one bit little bit in in one of the one of the stories that goes uh that he was uh that Jesus was full of great full of grace and truth. And and I remember thinking about that, I was like full of grace and truth, full of grace and truth. And it's just like so wait a minute, he somehow was a hundred percent grace and a hundred percent truth. And people when they got that, most people were it seems, it seems most people were like, Oh wow, thanks for seeing me. And and somehow they got they got told the hardest thing about them while getting a hug at the same time, and it changed them. And that's what I I thought, oh, I would like to be able to do that.
RhysYeah.
SamYou know, that the people I can say something hard to somebody, but somehow they still feel comforted and encouraged to actually and supported to to do something about that thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
RhysAnd both you and Claire, we talked about that last time, are super good at that. Training helps.
SamYeah.
ColetteI haven't always been this way. What else? Who else?
SamThanks, Sam. Oh, thank you guys. That was great. That really helped. You know what? Thank you. Thank that was good pushback. Thank you, Colin. Okay.
ColetteWell, Abby started it.
SamOh, so you're the one I'm gonna have to f no no I mean trouble figure. Yeah.
Peace Versus Happiness And Alignment
RhysOkay, so I'm stealing mine from um a Zen. I'm not really even saying that right. I'm not even gonna but anyway, I saw a very wise man speaking um on the Instas recently. He was being interviewed in a podcast, and he said, um Well, I guess I'll just ask the question, but it's definitely inspired from him, and I will put his name in the show notes because I feel like I need to give him the credit. Inspired from him, the question is what brings you peace, not happiness? Oh. And Morgan actually, see I'm your partner. Yeah. She um she responded to that on Instagram. She's like, oh my god, I love this video. Yeah. Oh, really? Yeah. Um I like that. What brings you peace, not happiness? Because um I my question or my thoughts around this is I really truly believe that the world collectively, I think we talked about this last time, could evolve to an even more positive state of consciousness and healthy consciousness with each other if we were all doing the very deliberate, deliberate work to tap into what brings us individually a sense of deep cellular peace, like at the most cellular level, what brings us peace. Because then collectively the world can experience more peace.
SamYeah. Um I think I know the video you were talking about. Yeah. Yeah. Because he says, What's uh he asks him somebody goes, I don't want happiness, I just want peace or something.
RhysYeah, and I and I've been thinking about that ever since I saw it because it's so gosh darn true. Like I know I've talked about this on nauseum, but like these past few years for me, I've been seeking what brings me makes me feel the most alive and what brings me peace, but I will not say that I've been happy 100% of the time. Yeah. Like I'm exhausted a lot of the time. I'm working on how do I financially make my passions work and that's hard. I've lost relationships, relationships are changing. I've felt abandoned, I've felt isolated, I felt depressed. None of those things bring me happiness. But I will say, when I kind of if I continue to ask myself when it gets the hardest, do I feel at peace within myself or within my choices? It's like a hundred percent I can say yes. Oh. And I think that's the big difference is like, while happiness is maybe kind of can flee, peace is a sense that I'm deeply aligned with like who I am at the deepest level, and I'm making choices that are aligned with the who I am at the deepest level. But it's a journey. Um, I don't know. What do y'all think?
SamDoes that make sense? When do you think I have so many things to say? Because I'm trying to ask them as a question though.
ColetteYeah, sometimes it comes down to figuring out how to ask the question.
SamYeah.
RhysYou can take a time. Steve Jobs once paused like 18 seconds before answering. Oh, I remember that.
SamAnd then he gave a great answer. Yes, I think. Yes, he did. Well, but how do you handle that though with uh cause I mean peace I I I what's a f how do you handling not having happiness though with some of those things though? Does the peace what a great question. And do you know? No, no, no. You're like well yeah, how do you handle that? Because is is the peace is there any point or any time it's been sufficient or more Is it enough? Enough, yeah, then if if happiness Do you know what I'm trying to say?
RhysYeah, I think that's the thing. And and Paige and I talked about that, I think it's a um I I was explaining about a little bit uh about this to her. And and she's like, no, I get it. Like it's just a drive you have within. I'm the same way. Yeah. And I think that's the thing that even when it's when I've experienced the range of emotions of everything I just described, it's just like this unabiding conviction that I'm on the right path and that things will work themselves out. And I just can't quit. I can't quit.
SamYeah.
RhysJust like you said, I'm not a quitter. I just you're I I'm just not, I don't even mean it. I'm not a quitter in the most like try to blease. It's just like I don't know how to quit when I know something's right. Yeah. Yeah. That's the only way I've known how to do it. And also like a dog with a bone, you know. The bone being peace. And having friends around me. Um, if I got really uncomfortable and I didn't have an apartment and I didn't have my friends and all those, yeah, I might probably start questioning a lot of it.
SamOoh, that's better. That's what I was wondering. Is the peace like, is it feel better than what you what you experienced in happiness?
RhysIt doesn't know. That's the thing, is why I'm good. I'm like asked this question because I'm so curious about it. It doesn't necessarily feel better. Everything feels harder. But I think satisfying, maybe? Yeah. Like, um, okay, so just to give context, like before I was in the corporate world and I made a really good living and I loved it for a lot of reasons, and I was happy and a lot of goodness came into my life. But I always felt this unsatiated desire to orient my life towards serving and helping people. And so I left two years ago to go do that. And remember I was telling you Clit the other day, I'm like, I love helping, but why do I have to suffer for it? And that's where I'm at because I'm doing the thing I know I'm supposed to be doing, which is orienting my life towards service, but it's still it's not yet caught up where like the economics of it all make sense. Um Yeah.
KhadejaThis to me is a question similar like did the egg come first before the chicken or the chicken come first? Because to me, I can't separate peace from happiness. It's the same thing. If I'm not at peace, I can't be happy. If I'm not happy, I'm not at peace.
SamI'm not at peace.
KhadejaSo you think it's the same thing, maybe? That's why. Yeah. They're they are the same side of two of a coin. Oh. No, different sides of the same coin.
RhysInteresting. Happiness on one side and peace on the other.
SamYes. Because you can't have one without the other. And that's how you've always experienced it. Yes. True. You need to bottle up your wow.
ColetteMy in my like morning meditation, my guides, there's this uh card I keep pulling that is happiness. And it has it's so it's such a I'll try to uh I'll take a picture of it so we could put it in the show notes. Um it's all these different masks uh of different colors and variations, and it's like what are the um that there's all these different ways that you can experience happiness. Masks not in like a negative connotation, it's a very neutral thing when I say a mask, like that you can experience happiness at different levels. And so I I I think I I've been I've been where you you are, Reese, but I've also I've I feel like I'm falling more where you are, Khadija, that it does feel like two sides of the same coin. Um, but my happy, I think I've always associated happiness with a high intensity.
SamAh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
ColetteUm of like high energy pleasant. Uh if you use like how that there's this app called How We Feel, um, and it categorizes feelings into high and low intensity, uh, and then unpleasant and pleasant. And I've always associated happiness with like high energy pleasant feeling. But what if happiness can be a low intensity pleasant feeling?
RhysYeah. Yeah. And I think, yeah, I like that a lot. I think every day I go to my job now working in the ED and all that, I feel like that lower intensity consistency. Following chaplaincy, I feel the same way. Following doing my photography, I feel the same way. It's just this like, right. So it's not like the aestheticness I felt when I was making money and saving money and traveling the world. Like those things brought me those things as well, but it was a higher intensity. And I think maybe that's why I can keep perceiving that there's a problem here. Because mostly I only associate happiness to the high intensity experiences. Yeah, me too. So like it's a um like a reframe of it. Uh-huh. Well, I wonder if a lot of people have are like that.
ColetteMm-hmm. Do you think it has to be What do you think, Khadija? Yeah. You're the one who brought it up. Like Is it more for you, is happiness like a spectrum?
KhadejaI would say it is. It is a spectrum. I can be a little bit happy, I can be a whole lot happy, but as long as I'm on the happiness spectrum, not like on the sad spectrum, I am at peace no matter what. And my peace doesn't increase no matter where I am on a happiness spectrum. Say that again. My peace doesn't increase no matter where I am on a happiness spectrum.
SamInteresting.
KhadejaOkay. Your peace is the same? Yes. Peace is static. Uh happiness is more dynamic. What? What are you doing?
SamWhy aren't you writing a book? What do you do? Where did you when did you realize this?
KhadejaJust now.
SamOh.
RhysPeace, yeah, it's like a consistency feeling. Yeah. Does that make sense? I think before I had happiness, but maybe not as much peace, which is why I made a jump.
SamMm-hmm. I will say, like, as I've gotten older, I think that's I'm I'm more interested in peace than I am at being happy. But funny enough, now that the way Khadija says it, oh, that's why I I am happy when I'm at peace. Like and it doesn't, and it really doesn't matter what's because you could be doing the most I could be climbing a I could be hiking a hard trail, or I could be sitting on my couch watching, you know, welcome to dairy. And you know, as long as I'm if I'm feeling peace, oh yeah, I'm at this I'm happy.
RhysLet me ask one question to the circle before I move on from my topic is what does peace feel like to you all? And um I uh if I could offer if I could just start really quick with that, I think something I've realized is when I'm most at peace, it's the coolest feeling on earth. Because it's where for personally for me I feel most aligned with holy divine. It's it's like I am almost feel like one with God, with the universe, with the creator, and nothing else needs to happen to need to be satisfied. It is like a deep and dwelling. I am home, and if I never moved from here, that would be okay. It is it's the best feeling on earth.
SamYeah.
RhysUm, which is why maybe I'm I do associate that feeling with a difference of happiness. Because happiness can be brought to me by music, which I can feel that deep alignment.
AbbyBut it's like, yeah, it's like happiness is external, whereas peace is internal.
RhysOoh. Yeah. Yeah. But it's like an outward overflowing and it's like just pure alignment. It's a pure aligned feeling with God. Um that can be accessed in in the world for me. But yeah, it's hard to tap into, but when I do, it just feels like man, nothing else could happen and life would be fine.
SamYeah.
RhysDo y'all have similar feelings, or how does your experience a peace?
AbbyYeah. When you were saying that, I feel like peace may be the essence of being a human and kind of the meaning of life. You know, like that's what we're searching for. Um versus happiness. I feel like maybe those two are getting confused. Um maybe we're supposed to be searching for peace.
SamI wonder I wonder if because it sound the way you're saying that peace sounds like um like equilibrium in a way. Yeah. Or homeostasis.
AbbyYeah, I was visualizing just like instead of it's just a line, just like a straight bar, whereas like happiness has the flow. Yeah. Like peace is just that underlining river that just kind of is. And then you tap into it and it's below the surface.
ColetteI actually had a mentor once talk about peace being the rocket the boulder in the river.
SamOh. What? Wait, say that again.
ColetteBut like how um the peace is a thing that keeps you grounded and uh and and and kind of stays the course over a long period of time. It can be gradually eroded down by the turbulence of a river, but ultimately like peace is about kind of staying being so grounded that no matter what the river is like around you, whether it's hot or cold or calm or raging, you're um the the the rock still remains.
AbbySee, I always saw it as it was explained like be the rock or the reed. You can either like stay stuck and stagnant or you can just move with the flow. Yeah. So I like the way that you can kind of interpret it both ways.
RhysAnd I want to comment too, neither of these, I think so human dis uh neither of these are bad. No. Like happiness is not a pursuit, like a bad pursuit at all. I think maybe I was thinking maybe, oh, I should be feeling peace forever for happiness, but it's not. No, I think it's a both stand. Maybe that's why I am where I am. I've been okay with peace, but I haven't accepted happiness as an equally qualified feeling. Yeah. And that I do deserve both.
SamYeah, I'm still learning about these emotion things. So like I I don't know. This is at heart. I I I'm glad you asked this question because I realized I was like, I actually don't know if I can say I know what that feels like. Peace. Because I think there's always something like a tension all the time. And uh Although I I I probably resonate with what Clett and Abby's saying a little bit more with peace, is like you're either you either feel grounded or because I I feel I resonate exactly with the read too. Because it's just like sometimes being a piece is like you're just you're just in it. You're just adaptable. You're adaptable and you're fine. Both of them work for me. But um, yeah, I don't I gotta work on that.
RhysThere is this guy I watched just recently. Y'all watch the documentary Photographer on Disney Plus. It was incredibly inspiring. And it's about two photographers. They're both married, they work for National Geographic and they're traveling the world trying to save the oceans. Oh. And uh he had really quick, he was filming and photographing um, I think a lot leopard walruses in the Arctic, which are gorgeous creatures or sea lions, but they're huge two-ton animals, big teeth. And he got too close to one after it was feeding and it started to come after him, and he had to shove his camera into its mouth to survive the attack. But he said in the moment that he thought, okay, this is it. Oh, wow. This is the moment I'm going to die, he felt extraordinary peace. Oh. And that's what I think I'm also trying to describe is the ultimate peace is a superseding of the ego, which keeps us in tension. Yeah. Sorry if I dig.
SamNo, no, no, no, no, no, not at all. This was really good.
KhadejaDid he feel peace or did he just feel resolved to his c situation at that point?
RhysI think he had let go of total control because he had no choice. He survived it. But I thought, wow.
ColetteYeah. Yeah, that sounds like surrender. Surrender. Yeah. Which I think is part of the peace puzzle, so to speak.
SamDun dun. Man, you just that was a deep one, Rhys. Now I gotta go to therapy.
ColetteWhat's new?
SamNo, I have to go to more there.
ColetteWhat do you call this?
SamYeah. That's the truth.
ColetteI'm curious what our guests have to say. Yeah. What your question is.
Can You Measure Kindness?
KhadejaOkay, I changed my slightly. Okay. Can you measure kindness?
SamOkay. And can you?
KhadejaThat's what I feel. I feel if you are actually trying to measure somebody else's kindness, you're doing it with a motive.
SamOkay, say more. Yes.
KhadejaAnd then they tally that to see how kind they can be towards that person that's trying to keep equal scored. And at that time, I understand it, but also time I feel like then you're not being truly kind. You should just, if you're truly kind, you should just be able to help someone and just keep it out of your mind. It doesn't even bother you anymore. You don't even care that they may not return your favor because you're over that and you're walking away.
RhysReminds me of the Seinfeld episodes. I don't know if I'm dating myself too. But where George, he's always trying to he wants to leave a tip, but he always wants the um Barista Barista to see him leaving the tip. Oh, yeah, yeah. And he gets so mad when they don't like. So he'll try again until they see that he's left a tip.
SamWell, yeah, that brings up yeah, I is kindness really kindness when it's just transactions. Yes. Yeah. It's not. Yeah.
AbbySo I guess how is asking that question helping growth?
ColetteI feel like it's a confront it would be a kind if you think somebody's having a transactional relationship to kindness, it would be a very confrontational question to ask. Oh yeah. You know? Like um, I don't know, Khadija, you're the one who I asked it. That's how I feel about it.
RhysBut my response was gonna be It's a wake-up question. Yeah, like who cares? Like, not who cares about your question, but like, why would I care to measure kindness?
KhadejaMm-hmm. I feel like the person who would want to care to measure kindness would be the type of person who would ask the question, what would it like to be on the other side of you? They're tied together, they want some type of reaction from you, they want to gaze you, they want to see how you are, they want to secretly critique you because they come in with a chip on the shoulder.
ColetteWhat was the original way you asked it though? Because before we got on, you asked it.
KhadejaOh, I said, how do you measure kindness?
SamYeah. Oh yeah, that makes it that makes it a little bit different. See, because uh that's how I uh when you I could see I love asking like um I'm I'm a big question asker in relationships. Like like when we do the the main gathering, I literally have decks and decks of cards of questions, you know, couples questions, friends questions, you know, does family questions, whatever. And um and and like that's part of what I do what Morgan and I do a lot is ask, you know, we have questions we ask. See, I feel like that's a great question to ask somebody in your life that's important so you can understand them. Like tell me how like how what is like what is kindness to you and like how do you even gauge that, measure it? You know, I I it seems to me it sounds like a more uh an exploratory question that's actually very could be very good helping you understand somebody else. Yeah.
AbbyI think that's a good this is a good Curious Crew question you should throw.
SamOh, that's a good oh yeah.
ColetteWe did have a question once in Curious Crew. It was like, when was the last time you experienced uh act of kindness?
SamYeah.
ColetteKindness part two will bring back the cure. Yeah, how do you measure it?
SamOkay, that's it, Abby. You're leading that one.
RhysOh god.
SamOh, did I say no?
RhysSo was it can you measure kindness or how?
KhadejaUh I changed it to can you measure kindness? Oh, but then we started was how do you measure kindness? Yeah.
ColetteAnd then our follow-up question to that question, I what I heard was should you measure kindness? Is it kindness if you're measuring it? Was kind of what I heard in your question.
RhysWell, what if we took a positive spin on it too? Not to be positively toxic. Sorry.
ColetteI don't know what's on what's not what's negative about that question, but I guess a should question. Yeah, I don't know the should word. I don't like the should word, but that's okay. Um I don't know. I'm a bit a bit more comfortable with being a little more judgmental about things like kindness.
RhysNo, I love it. That's why I love you. You're so direct about things.
SamBut you just I've no I've been around you a while. And you you you I remember you've said this more because I'm talking a clip, by the way. Uh um sorry, we don't have video. Uh you because I that's a big trait for you.
ColetteYeah, kindness is a value of mine, yeah.
SamSo what how do you define that exactly?
ColetteWell, I did it in the last episode. I'm not saying it again. I can't beat that. What if they didn't listen? I know. I know we're just gonna have to insert a clip or something. Um but previously curious quick. Yeah, for me, like I I want let me think about let me actually answer this question, not just about my how I want to give the world kindness, but also how I want to receive it is unconditional.
SamYes.
ColetteUh and that's what I feel like your question is begging, Khadijah, is what is unconditional kindness? And I think it's probably in the same lane as unconditional love and that it has no strings. Because I have people in my life who have nothing but strings attached to everything. And that's why they're not in my life anymore. Was because I was like, is it kindness if you expect to be able to hold this over my head for the rest of my life?
KhadejaNo, that's extortion.
ColetteThank you. You heard it here. That's extortion. Yeah, I love that Khadija. So yeah, that's um that's that's a question I'm always asking myself. If if I feel hesitant about doing something for someone, I'm asking one of my questions, because I don't want to end up like those people in my family, is am I doing this with strings attached? Do I have an expectation of reciprocity? If I do, why? What is the context of this relationship? And why why do I feel like I need to take a tally right now? Because I think we all we all we all take it take a tally. It's just whether or not we challenge it. Um because you you want to receive in your relationships, not just give and give and give all the time. Like that's what relationships are.
SamAnd they fluctuate. Right. Yeah. They're just, you know, they're just gonna fluctuate.
ColetteExactly. But my thing is like, do not hold it over the head for hold it over my head for the rest of my life. Yeah. Um that's that's the biggest thing is is there this ongoing tally? Do then is there this like implied sense of like I owe you. Right. I did this for you, so why don't you do this for me? Right. Yeah. Or remember that time?
SamMm-hmm.
RhysYeah.
ColetteAnd I think like we do owe each other something. So don't get me wrong. Kindness shouldn't just be in, you know, like the whole giving tree thing. The tree ends up dead.
AbbyUm also I feel like people's definition of kindness is different. So like what you considered kindness, or like I know with my partner and I like the way that she shows love is different than the way that I show love. So like it was very kind for her to go to Walmart for me, but I don't want to do that for her, and it's not expected. Oh, yeah. So like I am good at doing the dishes, you know, like so. We're not, it's not tit for tat. It's like I'm good at this, so I'm going to do that. So I feel like kindness is different for everyone.
SamAnd what's as long as it's reciprocal. It doesn't matter. It doesn't have to be exactly reciprocal, as long as it's just you gave me a kindness, now I give you kindness. And there's a flow between it. Yes, exactly.
AbbySo who's measuring?
SamYeah.
RhysWell, when Khadija asked, and I I actually thought of, yeah, it does sound a little transactional, like, should it be measured? But I also thought, like, oh, interesting. Um, how do I measure kindness and what does that feel like? I was and I was thinking that was my experience of the question. Was like, how do I how do I experience kindness? How do I know when I'm receiving it? And I think like I think Michelle Obama said this recently, like any good relationship and any kind relationship will feel good, period. It should feel good. It's gonna be there are times that it's difficult, but it shouldn't feel bad. It should feel good. And I think that's it. Like it comes down to just if we are talking about how do we measure it, it's a feeling. Right? Like all good. I think about like the my romantic relationships that I've had, and then I think about um my friendships, and I'm like, okay, some of those romantic relationships didn't work out. And I'm and then I reflect on, well, what should I have felt long term for it to have worked out? And I'm like, it should feel like some of my closest friendships, where it's equal and mutual and it feels kind and it feels mutually supportive. And it's like it's just like we want the best for each other. Um so anyway, I think I went in another direction with this question, but that's kind of where I landed is like, yes, to like how do you measure it sounds transactional, but also like if we're gonna talk about that, it feels good.
SamI don't think you went a different way. Cause I I because once again, if you were talking just about, you know, us here, but zooming out, I think that's a good way to think about it. You know, with I think being uh actually the way you said it, and I may maybe butcher in it, is you just maybe you and I think about this probably in the way that we're so different, or at least we perceive ourselves to be so different, you know. And um and we're gonna cram across people that you know are different than us or rub us the wand roll or whatever, you know. And and I I think it maybe that's what kindness is to go like, okay, you're you. That's good. You know, I'm me. And I'm not I don't you don't need to change, you know, and then maybe that's a kindness of just like of your, you know, just honoring your existence as you are, even though I don't necessarily connect with it or understand it or or something like that.
ColetteBut I'm curious, Khadija, to go back to the core like the core question, how does this help people grow? Um I'm I I'm curious, how do you how how is growth and kindness connected for you?
KhadejaI feel like unless you are actively growing, your kindness stays stagnant. Maybe because if you're growing in a positive direction, it doesn't matter what how older you are, as long as you're of going to like a higher stage of consciousness, you're gonna become naturally more kind. I feel like and kindness is gonna diff depend on exactly where you are in your growth. Oh and also depends on what your mental low is, because not everybody can be can aspire to like some arbitrary level of kindness. As long as you're giving it your all, wherever that may be at that time, you're kind.
SamOh, okay. Yeah, that's a very kind way to say that.
RhysAnd is that for you how you grow is by tapping into your natural kindness?
KhadejaI feel like yeah, because it really taught me that to just let things go. If I feel like a relationship is not being is not mutual, I'll step back and refocus on my relationships that are very mutual and beneficial to both of us. And now let that I won't have any hard feelings toward that one person because even though our kindness, uh how we treated kindness, mean how we believed in kindness wasn't exact, that doesn't mean that person was a bad person. It just simply means that it was a mismatch. I wish that person well and I just keep on with my life.
RhysI love that. Yeah, that's an important lesson. Yeah.
SamHas kindness always been an important value for you? Yes. From your earliest memories. What is that because your family? Where does it come from?
KhadejaUh so growing up, I have a speech impediment, which means like it used to be way worse. And so, like, I have a very difficult way, a different way of speaking. And growing up, I was teased in school. Yeah. So I always feel like, yeah, people who was kind for me, I was kind for them back. But as I started to grow, I'm like, okay, how can I overcome this and just be not care whether or not I'm kind to someone, they're not kind back. Oh. So it really triggered a lot of internal growth for me.
SamHow old were you when you realized this?
KhadejaBut I don't know. I just a lot of times I just sit in my head and I just talk to myself.
SamWere you were you still in like school school, like K through twelve, or were you in like I think college. Okay. College. That's still pretty that's still pretty young to have. That's a pretty deep uh and very like mature evolution to have that young. Yeah. But of course, people who have suffered usually attain it quicker.
RhysYes.
SamYeah.
RhysYeah. I admire that.
SamYeah.
RhysThank you. Seriously.
SamYeah. It takes a lot to to extend kindness to people who are not kind to you. It it takes it takes a very a very evolved and and and a very evolved person to be to be able to do that.
KhadejaOnly two type of people I refuse to be kind to me are racist and rapist. Absolutely not. Hell yeah. That's fair.
SamEasy to remember too. Two R's.
RhysI think that's totally fair.
SamYeah. That was good. Thanks, Khadisha.
RhysMm-hmm.
ColetteActually
What Will You Do With Pain?
ColetteSo my what you just said connects to the question that I originally wrote down, but that was like there's something under my original question that I wrote down to say is uh how have you abandoned yourself was a question that changed my life. But what that question was begging was what will you do with your pain? What are you gonna do with it? Um, because I I had patterns of self-sabotage and self abandonment because of the pain. And what what you just said around like you you chose kindness because you didn't receive it, and you're like, I know how bad this sucks. I don't want to give this to someone else, is kind of how I experienced that. Um I think m more people could stand to be asked the question what are you gonna do with your pain?
SamOh God, yeah.
KhadejaUh I can so when COVID just happened, I was actually making uh I was seeing like results from like trying to expand my social circle. And because COVID happened, all those plans went up in the air because everyone was too afraid to go out. So all the budgeting social friendships I had was like gone. So I was like very sad. I was very angry for like the first two weeks. And then like I was just steeping in my anger till one day I just heard the voice like how long are you gonna keep being angry? Oh how long? Yeah.
SamDid you say like very similar question did you say like when you're gonna mind your business voice?
KhadejaI don't know. That really just made me pause and think like okay yeah so COVID happened those friendships are gone. Okay let me redirect myself what friendships do I have can I focus more attentions on nails can I refocus my attention from outside COVID into reading more books getting back into gardening getting back into crafting and I stopped watching TV can I stop trying because during COVID I also had to be so I'm the middle child I was called the dutiful daughter by my mom because I was always willing to just bury the hatchet and do what was necessary to just keep the family thriving. And so my mom during COVID I hate to say but she went insane she went she was very social she was very and COVID just broke her heart. Oh I bet so I just kind of had to be my mom cheerleader my mom therapist and I just had to redirect that anger for always being used as an unpaid therapist and also taking dealing with my family problems to the point I'm just realizing you know I just have to let this go. I can either carry this baggage with me for the rest of my life or I can just let it go and stay on fire.
ColetteLike Rick and Moy said push your shit into a box and throw it somewhere put your shit in yeah yeah I really I really resonate with that Khadija because that is why that question was asked of me um you know the my original question how do you abandon yourself was because I was the dutiful daughter you know the peacemaker to my own detriment everyone's peace was important but my own and at some point I just think every every uh every dutiful child just needs to say skrewe this I'm done blow it up no um I think the anger is important to part of the process first of all um but to eventually get to the point of saying like the pain of being the one who's always taking care of everyone is means it's the pain of being the one who isn't being taken care of. Yeah. And of course like of course you're angry of course you're grieving that and like and that was a big part of my process was am I going to give up this role that I've been given that I was assigned? Um does it fit? Do you want it? You know, was a question I was asking myself when someone asked when my educator um uh Tammy asked me like how are you abandoning yourself at this moment? How are you self-sabotaging? Um because it was either taking my pain and like getting distracted by it because I had this role to fill or I could be confronted by it and like deal with it. And I feel like I have and I have a much better relationship with my family as a result and what I the people that I think who stop growing are the people who stay stuck in their pain or say stuck in a role and they res that they resent. It's like babe you don't have to you don't have to stay there. You don't have to stay in that role if you don't want to you have a choice um I think it's harder for some people than it is for others. There's always going to be consequences I had some lonely years you know um but coming out on the other side of it I'm really grateful that I was like I'm done. I don't want to play that role anymore. I'm not the dutiful daughter I'm not the dutiful sister the third parent in this mess up you know messed up family like I'm over it I fired myself resignation tendered and um that's when my life started to change and I started to ask like okay so I still have all of this pain what am I going to do with it and going into mental health chaplaincy then palliative chick care and doing education for folks and and now you know helping other educators develop professionally I don't know the question just always seems to serve me. I'm going through a breakup right now and it's like so what am I what am I going to do with my pain right now? Am I gonna let it am I gonna wallow in it or am I going to use it as information to understand my needs moving forward? That's what I'm trying to do. It's not really easily and kind of move from there. Um but the people that in my life that I'm like worried about becoming to your point Sam like I think we're all we all have people in our family that we're worried about becoming I think when I really think about those folks those family members they have not dealt with their pain and they have not decided what they're gonna do with it.
RhysThey just let it fester this fills out unintentionally there's a Bruno Mars lyric I hope would come up today and you've given me the perfect opportunity. Oh my gosh.
SamDon't fight the feeling and bite the feeling see like so you you are Cardi an answered my question about it. Because that this is the thing I I so I'm gonna ask you Khadija because you you just said you just let it go. Like you talked about it more as a role that you play. Even in your breakup would you say is that the same mode or the I'm trying something different yeah. Um but yeah it's like people go like oh just feel the feeling and it's like that's not that easy. It's like what the fuck does that mean I'm feeling the feeling right now. And it's like and then I read something like uh well actually feeling neurologically speaking you know feelings only last a total of 90 seconds in your brain. And so anytime you feel anything after that that's on you buddy. Like you're ruminating on the feeling the the of what the feeling felt like and and I'm like okay and my mind is knowing all this and my feelings like fuck you buddy it's right here man I'm not going anywhere. And so like DJ when you said like with um like letting go like I can't imagine. It's just like you're just like oh you know what is that how do you do that? What is the process or like what is a like what's been helpful for you?
KhadejaJournaling has been very helpful for me. Okay. It's also being very empathetic and realizing that my mom came from a very very dysfunctional childhood. So she was traumatized raising us and my parents' marriage oh God the less I all I can say that they are resilient. When in their marriage vows when they said for better and for worse they really meant that part. Yeah. And one thing that my mom did when she was when I moved down here about four years ago but she did this about two years ago she wrote an email to all my siblings together like a little group chat like thank you for grow for being patient with me as I was growing up myself while I was your mother. Wow and I was like you know everything I felt at like all my resentment I held is just gone especially to my dad even though my dad didn't write that it's gone because yeah growing up my dad was that very traditional southern man so he never told us he loved us but my dad told me only once he loved me when I was moving to New Orleans and he dropped me off at the airport. He said daddy's gonna miss you daddy loved you and that was it. So you got two big gifts from your folks yeah oh I'm so happy for you for that yeah I I just have to realize my parents they did their best and I'm just gonna have to realize that accept that and just find a way to like it's not my fault that I'm traumatized but I'm too old to let this trauma just keep trying to bury me. I have to be the one to release it even though it's not my fault I can't allow it to just hang over my head like a cloud. Wow the sun is come out the sun has stayed and I'm gonna stay like this damn you're strong teacher shit. Journaling it helps what's that journaling it helps.
SamYeah journaling's help for me too uh it just I I I still have a tendency to just grab onto things and I'm just trying to learn how to so I'm just asking everybody how they do that because I just you know I still haven't figured out the exact mechanism that is good for me.
RhysPhysical like whenever I feel anger I punch on a punching bag I think I mentioned have I mentioned anyway and I let myself speak every profanity against that person and I let the shadowy self of me that wants to be like fuck you everything after that yeah that I don't say in person I let it come out because I don't want to shame that part of myself and it's not hurting anybody either. Oh good point yeah you're just letting it out and not and then I let it be you know it's okay to if you feel pissed off or hurt there's a reason for it that can be reasonable. Is it reasonable to let that out in public at all times? No but okay it's there so I'm gonna channel it. Yeah um and I don't mean I think I've uh brought this up a few times and I think we've had this kind of like side debate a little bit of like or like you're we're trying to figure this out but like when I'm just saying just feel the feeling I know that's frustrating to hear. Yeah um because it's not just just feel it and it'll go away. I think what I'm saying is it's there how do we get curious about it, acknowledge it and then channel the fuck out of it. Yeah.
ColetteBut not everyone has been socialized to even feel like to un to know that a sensation is happening and that a feeling is there.
SamYeah.
ColetteFor me it's being the dutiful daughter was um meant that my feelings were like I could not prioritize them. And I did that for so long that I I have to really sit with myself to even feel the feeling so that I could even that I even know that it's there. Yeah. Sometimes it takes minutes, sometimes it takes hours but sometimes it takes days, it's weeks for me to like what is what is this because for so long just emotionally shut down um and I I'm seeing this like ADHD specialist and she recommended this like um like 30 minute wallowing. Great. And it's like it's like during she's like it's not journaling because you're not going to put a positive spin on any of it. You're just gonna let it all out you're gonna set a timer let it all out and then you're gonna light that shit on fire. That's what she said you like throw it away you shred it you don't ever want to see it again so that you don't start ruminating on it. She's like you got got to get it all out of you and then that's what I'm saying. And but she also says like set a timer uh because I'm dealing with like 80 issue burnout so the overwhelm just hits me sometimes she's like set set a schedule like you're gonna do it on this time every day or every week you're gonna do the walla session for 20 to 40 minutes. Uh then you're gonna set that shit on fire and then you're gonna move on. And so when you're overwhelmed throughout the week with with whatever the emotion is you can just kind of say like not right now. You have to wait yeah which is something that I used to do when I was going through grief counseling. It was also recommended just like schedule when so that you're not feeling always overwhelmed. And I think it's a little complicated because I I can't always just I don't always want to put put things off like that because I have done it for so much of my life that I'm really trying to work on. I want to feel it right in the moment.
RhysYeah. Yeah and I used to be the same way just to I I used to be told that anything the thing I was feeling needs to stop right now. Stop rolling on the floor stop being angry stop doing this stop so I just repressed it. And so now I guess I'm just in this mode of being like I want to feel everything and it does become a little easier. Another thing find an egg wrap it in a paper towel and when you get angry throw it against a fence it's amazing cathartic experience.
SamI was taught that dude you're getting a video in about two hours just expensive.
RhysWhy well maybe now it's harder you can even think of much something much three years ago pre-Trump inflation um I used to just like going through breakups and stuff too throw that shit against fence and just watch it drop the egg drop technique right now it's too expensive.
AbbyWho wants to spend eight dollars to let your engine well my therapist uh actually showed me a technique that she learned where you like push a wall with all of your might to get that energy so maybe that's I like that free no I really like that will you show me that later I will I can't right now yeah we're all we're all sitting down and mic'd up I'm happy to show you because it really does help you know emotions are in your body and you need to get them out and any type of movement or whatnot helps.
SamThat's been the hardest thing for me to realize because I mean as as the person that's probably the youngest emotionally here. Yeah because like I don't perceive that no I'm t I tell you man I I I joke around about it a lot but like I blame Morgan because like until we met I I didn't know I felt things. She sounds really great for you. I'm not joking. Like she I she really helped me because I was just like I was just because my primary emotion is always anger it still is and and so she was always I she would see I was I was upset and she goes what are you feeling I'm like I don't know I'm pissed off and she's like well no what do you why and I was like why do you have to know why you're pissed it's like because this motherfucker over here did you know whatever and then she showed me the feeling wheel you know what I'm talking about she would just fill it out boop yep she she literally had it no joke and I was like what is this there's this many feelings what is this and it's it was helpful because I'm like okay for I'm feeling this I'm feeling this I'm feeling this I'm feeling this and that's what has been helpful for me is just like going back and saying like okay I'm angry okay that's not it though. What is it? Right there's always something behind anything sad or yeah so it it is it's it's you know just getting and I think that's what maybe that's what you were referring to Colette. Was there's just not a lot of people who've been socialized emotionally and that I would that I'm one of those people. You know it's just like and you know if you want to be stereotypical, you know, guys have two modes you know or whatever. Or like the whole crayon crayon box thing. You know you you know we're given so many like the the the eight pack and everybody else is given the 64 pack. You know and and I would say that's true for me.
ColetteUm well we also live in like a very pain averse culture. Yeah um negative emotions are considered all painful and to be avoided at all costs. So again my core question going back to what will your what will you do with your pain? Are you gonna just avoid it and stuff it where it becomes this rage of of unresolved grief and and uh suffering are you actually gonna feel it experience it be with it you buy yeah I uh what when Sam was like I'm feeling it but like are you actually because like if are you really feeling it?
AbbyBecause if you're really feeling it it's really gonna go away in 90 seconds. Yeah. And you know then Reese was talking about the shadow self and you know you have this anger and it's this giant monster and I'm I've come to realize that like when you look the monster in the face it stops being scary. Oh yeah. So when you actually look at your anger that's kind of when you realize it has no power and that's when it goes away.
SamSo yeah are you actually feeling well for me well the anger it's the anger's the the protector.
ColetteRight. Yeah I also think it comes down to what meaning are you making of it because if you take your your emotions and attach them to your identity too much um in an in a negative way it can lead really quickly to I'm feeling all of this rage and all of this grief um because I feel abandoned. I feel unworthy I feel all of this and that it can become this like shame monster. Oh to me shame is more like an identity feature like because it's I am I am worthless. It's not a feeling it's a it is a feeling but you know what I mean? It's an identity and um and I think that's the one place where feelings get complicated is when it comes to shame. Oh yeah. Um and like are you willing to put that shame up for trial and not always make friends with it.
SamWell I I will say just to give you some hope for me, Abby. No, is uh like the one emotion I think that I'm most comfortable with now, which is crazy to me is I feel a lot more comfortable being sad than I ever have been. Like I I used to be afraid to even say that and uh you know but now I'm just like yeah I'm sad and I'm okay with being sad. Because I have a reason to be sad and it's okay. And now I still have to like figure out all the other stuff to that. But um yeah I I I it's actually sadness is not it's actually preferable to anger I think now that I've done it a few times. Yeah.
RhysOh I like that.
AbbyI don't think that not being able or knowing how to process your emotions as a male thing. I don't feel like it's definitely you know I definitely come from that background where I don't know like I just learned about feelings. You too huh? Hey we should have a I'm like oh and so yeah I I feel like that kind of like leads into my question. Oh go ahead
Service, Community, And Pressure
Abbyum because I have like pre-question questions before I have questions. So my pre-question question hold on I have not are basically like do you even want to grow? Oh like you know like I feel like it's consent like because like let's not be giving out like unsolicited advice you know it wastes everybody's time. So if you don't and if you don't even know that you have to grow like then I don't so yeah that's the first question. And so let's see like I guess once you have that established it's kind of like have you gone outside today? Have you had water? Like have you unplugged sat there for 10 minutes and then like replugged in because I feel like a lot of that could be like solved that way. But I guess with those questions like the real question is um how can you be of service in this moment?
SamOoh I like that first of all I want to I think your initial pre-questions are actually the better question because that would probably solve 90% of most problems. Or just computers that we don't get just like have you had water because she'd probably be less bitchy. You know or you're grumpy.
AbbyI prefer thinking myself as a plant yeah the volume yeah it was like a I you know I had my post-traumatic growth period and I was just like reading all kinds of books to make me better as a human being and I I couldn't remember what book I came it came from but I remember reading that question and being like oh my gosh I have the secret to the world like just keep asking yourself how you can be of service in this moment and you will get through life. And so you know it's been on my screen for the past four years my lock screen and my phone to like remind me but it's also like been on my screen for the past four years. And so it's like I don't look at it the same way as I do When I first found it. So when this question was asked, I was like, oh my gosh, this is my question. Yeah. Um but I don't know. I feel like when I first discovered that question, it meant something different than it does now, especially I mean, which makes sense because every moment's different. Um so yeah.
SamWhat did it oh go ahead?
ColetteI'm curious. Same question that I had for Khadija. What's the connection between service and growth for you? Why is service the and to yourself or to others?
AbbySo that's the thing. Like or both. It's whatever service means to you. Like because in this moment, service can change. Like where that comes from, where it goes. Um I feel like service, you know, I I'm not I don't really like that word. I feel like it very much it's very close to a religious word. And religious words like just too much weight. Yeah, they turn me off. I they're not there too much trauma there.
SamYeah.
AbbyUm, so but like on a different on a level, you know, I guess the hierarchy of needs, once you have all of your personal needs met, like as I was discovering in growth, like service is kind of where you need to go. Like, and what does that mean to anyone? It doesn't it's different. So for me, I guess service is just making something, I guess, better, making that moment better, and how what that means to me it might be different than what it means to you. Um yeah, I've been spending lots of years trying to discover what that means and like where I connect in the world and where I can use my good things, like you know, I have things to bring to the world and where can I do that? And I guess that's kind of just been a journey that I've been on recently.
ColetteHow's that helped you grow as a person? Like focusing on that?
AbbyBecause I'm realizing what I want and what I don't want in the world, who I want to be around, who I don't want to be around, what energy I want to put out in the world, what energy I want to bring in. Um, I feel like knowing those things helps you grow.
RhysAre you someone in your family who was always looked to to kind of bring the solution?
AbbyYes, I definitely did resonate with Colette um and Khadijah with the eldest daughter situation, but I also kind of rebelled against it for a really, really long time. Um you know, I left home, I I didn't want to come back here, you know, and I think with the death of my father, I'm realizing that I need to kind of those things are mine and I need to have figure out how to have them. Um so which ones are yours? I'm sorry. None of them actually.
SamBut um yeah, how do I clean up that mess? That's not mine. Why do you think that that that particular question resonated with you so deeply? Like you said, it was like I have the answer to why did what about it was so interconnecting to you?
AbbyHonestly, it was me six years ago. Like it community has just been like very important to me and like finding my community and finding like-minded people, and I guess I figured those two connected for me, like service and community. Um not in a religious way. Yeah. Um, but um yeah, those things are really, really important to me, and I guess that's why they connected.
SamYeah. I wonder that's a good question too, because I I mean I think we're all predisposed to be a little, you know, self-centered. You know, that's just our usual bend. And I think it's i that is a good question to like at least uh rudimentarily like help you realize like wait now, okay, I'm not the center of the universe here. Yeah, it's like I never was.
AbbyYou know not main character energy.
SamYeah, and it's like so I have something that it needs, I could do something here that's not completely just like I'm the center of the universe, maybe.
AbbyYeah, I I also feel like in this journey I've discovered that like we are all connected. So like no matter how you look at it, we're all organisms of this planet. We all came we came from the same cells. So anything that I'm doing to better whatever the planet, other humans, is actually helping me. So because because we are all connected, when we do the betterment for other people, we're doing betterment for ourselves, if that makes sense. Yeah.
RhysYeah, there is a psychological theory. I don't know if that's the right word, but um when you serve or help somebody else, you do get an increase in dopamine, a decrease in cortisol. You know, there's a very biological component to the action of service that's very mutually beneficial. Um so I think you're 1000% like spot on. Oh, yeah. That these are two also like these two sides of the same coin.
AbbyYeah.
RhysYou know?
AbbySo I mean, I guess technically it would be considered selfish.
RhysBut it's not.
AbbyBut not.
ColetteYeah, I think like true altruism is an overrated concept to try to attain. Yeah. Who cares if if it's mutually beneficial? Um, the idea that it only benefits one person feels like a product of individualism and like a Western mindset. Why can't it be why can't I do something that is meaningful to me and meaningful to someone else? And why is that considered a bad thing? I don't think it should be. No.
RhysNo, I actually thought a really cool part of creation that naturally we increase our own happiness when we increase somebody else. Yeah. I thought that was like whatever you believe in. Like for me, I was like, oh, okay, if there is some higher something here, like that was a cool idea. Yeah, just like reinforces interdependence.
ColetteYeah.
SamYeah, because that's what I was like, much like you and probably most people in the room, and listen they probably has a little there's some words that have some weight that they're there's they're still you can't blame a word, you know, for you know, so but I feel the same way of just like um so like uh I've I've I've messed with the word I've taken I have a whole thing about religion and spirituality, but like to me, spirituality is the bigger thing. And spirituality is about connection. And so in service is when I hear that, we're just like, oh, if I can serve somebody, and whatever that is, you know, it doesn't even really matter what it is, um there's a connection. There's there's a connection between me and this person or me and these this even it doesn't even have to be a person, honestly. Yeah, yeah. And and I think that is why it it is it resonates and does the psychological stuff because we are all connected, whether regardless of whether we want to believe that or not.
RhysYeah, we're all made up of like you said, cells and atoms and stardust. Yeah. Um one more question, and then I know we are almost at time, but for Abby, I think um something you said resonated because I've also been on a similar journey of like, what does community mean to me? And I want to be of service to community, and let me orient my actions around that. And um do you feel sometimes this is my experience of curious years, that you're putting a pressure on yourself to serve others? And what does that look like for you? Because I think that's something I have experienced and only recently decided and to have a more healthy relationship with that pressure to say, you know what? Whatever I have energetically to give today is what I have to give, and that is of service to myself to honor that and therefore of service to others. Oh.
AbbyA hundred percent. I feel like there is definitely a lot of pressure that I have put on myself to do to find that, to find where I'm, but I've also realized that's very external. So I kind of like turn it internally and be like, okay, like haven't found it yet, and that is okay because when I'm supposed to find it, I'm going to find it. And the more I push to make it happen, the farther away it goes.
SamYeah. So isn't that the truth?
AbbyRight.
RhysSo how annoying. Colette wisely said once, I don't know if you remember saying this to me like three months ago, but you were, I was like, I need to find the job that I'm gonna serve. And you're like, it will come. Take care of yourself first. And I did. I repainted my home, I took care of my house, and then I got the opportunity to. So there is a beauty to that.
ColetteYeah. Like we really do have to be in service to our ourselves to some degree before we're ready to serve others.
AbbyYes, absolutely. And grow ourselves before we can turn that outward.
ColetteOr even concurrently.
SamYeah.
ColetteBecause you don't want to be in a situation where you're giving um the within the the work that I do, it's uh you don't want to be bleeding all over people while you're trying to help them.
AbbyYes.
ColetteUh that kind of wounded healer mindset, like the the wounds gotta be cauterized, it's gotta be scabbed over, there can be you can you want to be scarred. It's okay to be scarred, but you can't be like openly bleeding and like septic all over the people that you're taking care of, you know?
RhysYou can't put a tourniquet on someone else if you're not putting on yourself.
ColetteYou know, and actually, and yeah, they teach you medical stuff, isn't it? Yeah, and like emergency medicine. Um, in in the military, everyone is uh given a a tourniquet and they always say, do not use your tourniquet on someone else. They have a tourniquet, use their tourniquet oxygen mask.
SamYeah, the oxygen mask, yeah.
AbbyYeah. I feel like that's a very rampant issue in like the wellness influencer place. Like people are like, oh, I had this one thing happen to me and now I'm all knowing. So I'm gonna teach other people.
ColetteIt's yeah, it's not that just because you had the experience doesn't mean you've like digested it in any sort of substantial way and like reflected on it. And and uh just because this worked for you doesn't mean it's gonna work for everyone either. Yeah. I see that in in some of my world too, where um it's like experience needs to be uh experience doesn't automatically become wisdom.
SamYeah.
ColetteLike there has to be reflection in order for it to end up at wisdom and more experience for it to get there.
SamYeah. That's cool. So well, oh my gosh. This was a see, once again, these questions are always very surprising about what they bring out. But we're not done yet. We're almost done. We're almost done. Uh we're
Gather The Good And Listener Invitation
Samgonna do gathering the good real quick. Um, it's the newest edition. And um because there there has been. I mean, I've got oodles of notes, and I'm looking around at everybody here, and I'm like, oh my Khadijah she wrote like a book over there. Uh you know, you got you know, there's all this wisdom and resources and perspectives and experience and quotes and books and and just everything. And and uh we've recently realized like we gotta start collecting some of this stuff because there is a lot of wisdom in these conversations, and uh it'd be wonderful to share them all. So um I'll get your guys' notes, but I we'll just take a few minutes to just like maybe raise one thing up in our conversation that that really resonated with you and and and maybe opened your perspective or you know, uh made your mind blow up, or maybe even solved a problem. Like you're like, oh, I that's what I've I I've been wrestling with this. So I know for me, uh like I I um well everybody said I mean something good, but I think the one that hit me the most is is what you you say collect pain. Is uh what are you gonna do with your pain? I think if if everybody asked themselves that question multiple times a day, the world would be a better place. I know I would be. Uh to be like to even recognize that you're in pain uh and then realize like, well, uh I just can't sit and just sit there with this all the time. I gotta do something with it. That's a great one. That really hit me good.
ColetteYeah, what Khadija said that uh peace is static and happiness is a spectrum really resonated with me and it was something that I've been um the par um the paradigm I've been thinking through is not peace but joy and h and happiness in their connection. But I think peace is it's it's part of that. It's in there. Um so you can't have a three-sided coin, but if you could, that's what I'm playing with. So I'll be thinking about that more.
RhysI think that it's been really helpful. I think coming into this conversation, I thought that only p excuse me, peace and happiness were separate and that they couldn't coexist together and they had to kind of choose. But y'all helped me grow in the fact of like, no, like you can have both. Yeah. I think that's important and to understand that. And then I really just admired, I think, Khadija, your countenance in general and just your focus on kindness, it definitely like resonates off of you. And I just appreciate that about you. I think uh you've always said that it's very important to me to find people in my life who are just like kind. And I also ultimately hope that whomever I choose to share my life with like really takes that quite seriously. So it's nice to know that there are people like you out there who really do. So thank you.
AbbyI'm gonna keep asking what it's like to be on the other side of me.
SamOh, really?
AbbyLike I really resonated with that.
SamReally? Okay. Hopefully in the way Colette re-engineered it. Not the way I I engineered it or was engineered for me.
AbbyIt's definitely something to look at.
SamMm-hmm. Did you say yours?
RhysDon't be too hard on yourself.
SamLike a leading person. Oh, okay. I couldn't remember if he did yours or not. Sorry. Didn't think you did. Did you want to go?
KhadejaUh yeah. I guess my question that I really enjoy was can you and should you measure kindness?
ColetteThank y'all for coming, Khadija and Abby. It's been a joy to have you. For those who are listening, Abby is actually a listener. And then she came to the Curious Crew. Yeah. So she is an example of what we're kind of inviting you to do. So if you want to be on the podcast. If you want to be on the podcast, you can reach out to us. Come to Curious Crew.
SamUm because it's just that easy.
ColetteWe just really appreciate y'all listening and staying engaged um in our long extended talks about the deeper things in life.
RhysUm and I would say if today sparks something in you and you want you want to hear it, you can text or leave us a voicemail right from the show notes.
SamAnd if you got uh a question you want the krewe to sit with, because like, yeah, you can offer questions, and and there's many ways that people have done that. Um, you can do that. You can vote too. Uh there's one link in the show notes that gets you to all of that, whether it's the the most recent gatherings, uh, how you can uh access the community, all the conversations. Um and we really say we really mean this. Uh we want to hear from you. We'd love to hear from you, to see you, um, wherever that is uh for you. So uh we do you want to do the the the the team version again? But now remember, you you poo-pooed me last time.
ColetteI did not. I thought it was a great idea. Let's do it.
SamNo, no, no, no, no, no, no. You poo-pooed me about the whether you're supposed to go on three or like after three. It's an important thing. You have to you you're if you're gonna do it We're gonna be let's do improv.
ColetteLet's improv. Does it work? But okay, you're the boss. Go ahead. Why am I the boss? Ready? Until then. Stay curious. Somebody's just gotta start it. Yeah. You did it!
SamDid you do it? Did everybody do it though? Okay, good. Alright, good. Dun dun dun. Dun dun dun dun. That was fun.
People on this episode
Colette Gaffney
Co-host
Rhys Lombardo
Co-host
Sam Hubbard
Co-host
Bruce France
Producer
Rhys Lombardo
Producer
Bruce France
Editor
Abby Brocato
Guest
Khadeja Bryant
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